[lounge music] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [Narrator] "On Story" is brought to you in part by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation, a Texas family providing innovative funding since 1979.

"On Story" is also brought to you in part by the Bogle Family Vineyards, six generation farmers and third generation winemakers based in Clarksburg, California.

Makers of sustainably grown wines that are a reflection of the their family values since 1968.

[waves] [kids screaming] [wind] [witch cackling] [sirens wail] [gunshots] [dripping] [suspenseful music] [telegraph beeping, typing] [piano gliss] From Austin Film Festival, this is "On Story," a look inside the creative process from today's leading writers, creators and filmmakers.

This week's "On Story," we walk through the storied career of Lee Eisenberg as he details his approach to balancing comedy and sincerity.

- On some level, I think that I'm in all of my characters, not that I created obviously Michael Scott, but I've definitely been needy in my life and I've felt desperation and trying to fit in with people and not doing as well as I would've liked in those situations.

And I think those are aspects that I would relate to with Michael Scott.

[paper crumples] [typing] [carriage returns, ding] - So would you, you know, tell the folks here how you, your unique break-in story?

- I worked on "Bedazzled."

I met Gene Stupnitsky.

Five years, we were writing scripts.

We were really trying to build things out.

We decided to write what we knew, which was two losers who lived together, who both drove Camrys [audience laughs] and with unisex names, Lee and Gene.

That was all we really had.

And so we pitched it to some people that we had been writer assistants and PAs for.

It was these guys, the Cullen brothers.

They had a show called "Lucky" that had been nominated for an Emmy, and they were having a real moment.

And so people wanted to work with them.

And then we were kind of like the children that they brought into the room.

So we sold this pitch for this... We changed.

We thought writing, it's not that visual [laughs] in terms of like what you see on screen.

So we made the characters of Lee and Gene or Lonnie and Gordo magicians, but everything else was the same.

And we sold it to Fox, and they paid us.

They paid us, you know, more money than we'd ever seen in our lives.

They definitely did not make that pilot, but that pilot got in the hands of Greg Daniels, which got us on "The Office."

And then that same script Harold read, and that got us "Year One."

So it was like five, you know, kind of very, you know, raw mini years of that.

And then in very short order, we got kind of two things.

That script I think is very good, and like we deserved to get hired off of that.

[typewriter ding] [Barbara] You went from that five years to all of a sudden a couple of things happening really quickly, right?

- All these people will read our stuff and not like it.

And a lot of people just wouldn't read it.

And then Greg Daniels, I really cared about his opinion, [both laugh] and he changed my life.

And then Harold Ramis, I really cared about his opinion because I've been obsessed with his movies and grew up on them.

He changed my life.

And so it was like, oh, all the other people, it was like, okay, you guys don't have to like my scripts.

Like the two most important, like the people I fantasize about liking it or even reading it, they really responded.

So Harold called us and he said, "I'm in a coffee shop.

"Everyone's looking at me 'cause I'm just laughing, and I'm reading your script."

I was like oh my God.

I couldn't believe that he was reading it.

And so then he hired us to write "Year One" with him.

And so, I was nervous that we had to like tell Greg that we had another that like secretly on the weekends and late at night, we'd be writing something else and that our focus sometimes would not be on "The Office."

But yeah, and again, because of those first five years, any job, I still, I take nothing for granted in terms of what my career is, but certainly in like those early days, I mean, we worked seven days a week.

You know, a studio would ask us to read a script and pay us a very small amount of money.

And we just said yes to everything.

Like there was no amount of money, big or small, that like was not appealing to us.

And also 'cause it felt like, well, what if no one ever calls us again and asks us to read the script or, you know, has us punch up their movie or whatever?

So, it was probably around like midway through our second season, maybe the end of our second season that I thought we wouldn't get fired.

- [laughs] You started, and you started on season two, right?

- Yeah, so the first season was that six-episode season, and then we started episode seven of the show.

- And I thought I remember, 'cause we had Mike Schur, and I thought I remember him saying things changed in season two with it.

- Well, yes, Lee and Gene joined the show.

- Yeah.

- Things changed in a big way.

- That must be what he meant.

- That's what he meant.

- It's a very specific brand of comedy on that show and that, you know, sort of discomfort comedy.

And how was that?

How was it you guys getting into the groove of that show?

- Those early days, I mean, it was so terrifying and so intimidating, and every day, it's like, you know, Gene and I would drive back.

We were roommates, and we would drive back and forth in one of our Camrys to work [audience laughs] and just talk about what happened that day and how we could've made, like how we should have like made our pitches better.

It was just like every day it was filled with such anxiety because it really felt even though that first season, it hadn't really reached an audience, but in the kind of the comedy community, there was nothing cooler.

And at the time, we had like the Lonnie and Gordo script, the magic script, we did get other offers to work on other shows that were for much like... We got offered to be staff writers on "American Dad."

And we chose "The Office," which was only...

When we got hired, it was only for another six episodes and seven backup scripts.

We were being tasked to write the seventh script.

In between the first and second season, this actor named Steve Carell became a movie star.

He did "The 40-Year-Old Virgin," and just the movie exploded.

And Greg very smartly made a slight adjustment where Michael Scott went from being a little bit of a jerk to a little bit more sympathetic and a little bit more needy.

And a lot of it really came from the way that Steve...

He really felt the pathos from the way that Steve performed in "40-Year-Old Virgin."

And so that was a real adjustment.

So season two, I think became a little bit more acceptable to the audience because in some way, you were frustrated with him, you rooted for him, but he wasn't the [bleep].

You could see yourself a little bit more in him, and like you wanted things to work out for him a little bit more.

- If you search on the Google, you will find that, you know, yours are kind of beloved episodes and some of them are also super... Like "Dinner Party" is, you know, oh, fans.

"Dinner Party.

- [laughs] Thank you.

[audience members cheer] - "Dinner Party" is really freaking uncomfortable.

- Oh, is it?

- Yeah.

- That, to me, I was like, oh, what a fun dinner party.

I wish I could go to dinner parties like that.

- But there are just moments I'd really like to hear, you know, your process of thinking some of those things through because they're so literally, you know, riding that line of, is this gonna be funny?

Is this actually gonna be funny when they get in there and talk about... Like those characters, you know, we know the characters, but there's some moments where you're thinking, "Oh my God, where's this going?"

- I love this TV.

Oh, and I also built this table.

What is that, chestnut?

- No, I think that is either pine or Nordic cherry.

- It's pine, yeah.

- Michael, I'm just terrible at all this stuff, so it's really cool.

- Really?

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, he tried to set up my TiVo for me, but then I didn't have audio for a week.

[Jan laughs] - If you ever need any help, I am just a phone call away.

- I bet you are.

- With "Dinner Party," that was an episode that had been talked about for a long time.

Virginia Woolf was a real kind of touchstone for that.

And, you know, the room generated a lot of ideas ahead of time, and when you go off, when you get sent off to script, you kind of have this, you know, those are writer assistant.

I once was one.

They take notes every day, and then you get sent the notes every night, but like you've just worked for 12 hours.

You're not going home and sifting through 15 pages of notes.

And so, when you get assigned an episode, you get 30 pages or 40 pages of notes, and some of them are the same joke repeated 15 times.

Some of them are things that can't be used.

And you find kind of the nuggets, and those could have been things that I pitched or Gene pitched or Greg or Mindy or BJ or Mike or whoever.

And your job is to now turn it into something.

And usually for "The Office," you would get around, I would say, about a week.

I would say it was like a kind of a work week and then the weekend, so nine days to write an episode would be on average.

And "Dinner Party," it was during a hiatus and we had three weeks that I did not intend to spend working on "Dinner Party."

Now, at that point, we had a little bit of a movie career, and we had movies and deadlines and all that stuff.

And Gene really pushed us.

We were in New York and he said, "This needs to be like the best script ever."

Like he really, he felt like there was a lot of competition, kind of friendly competition among the writers of "The Office," and you really wanted to impress.

And we spent all of our time on "Dinner Party."

And so we spent three weeks when I think the other writers were spending probably five days to nine days.

And we spent 21.

And when you hand in your script, you are waiting.

Like everyone starts reading it right away for a few reasons.

A, that's what your job is, and also it's like you need to kind of figure out like, are we gonna have to spend the next three days rewriting the script or is it ready for the table to do a table read?

And so you're sitting there as these eight hilarious people are reading your script quietly, and they're all just spread out around the room, and you're just like...

It's silent, and you're just like... And you check.

Like that's what all the writers do.

If you like a joke, you check it.

You're not laughing.

It's like robots.

And so you're like, mhm, this is funny.

And just like you check it.

[audience laughs] And so you're like looking around.

You're like, what is he doing?

Is that a check mark or is that an X?

And then every so often, someone would be like [chuckles] And you'd be like, what?

You kind of like mosey over to see what page they're on.

And then I would text with Gene.

I'd be like, "Page six."

And you're like looking at page six, you're like, what's funny on page six?

And it was like, did they like it?

We had put so much of ourselves into it.

That really was like the hardest we had ever worked on one of these scripts.

And then the response was positive, but like it wasn't what we hoped, [laughs] which was basically like people bowing at us, [audience laugh] which that was the only thing that could have made us happy.

And then we sent it in to the network.

And I'll never forget this.

I was in the room with Greg.

I think Gene was there, so maybe I will forget it.

But I was there, and Greg was there, and Greg was on with the network.

And the executive says, "So we read the script.

It's funny.

It's really dark."

And Greg goes, "Yeah," and then quiet.

And the exec said, "It's really dark."

And Greg goes, "Yeah."

[audience laughs] And then she said, "It's really dark."

[audience laughs] And he goes, "Yeah."

And nothing.

I'm not talking, and there's just silences.

And then Greg says, "Okay, anything else?"

[audience laughs] And then she said, "No."

And he goes, "Great, thanks, guys."

And he hung up the phone and then he goes, "All right."

And then that was it and was like Greg didn't wanna change the script.

And so that was it.

And then we did the table read.

The table read of "Dinner Party" is as much as I am able to have moments of joy in my life, like that is the height.

Like it was just... 'Cause it started really slow.

Like the first few pages really there were not laughs, and I was like, oh, like this is my nightmare.

There's nothing worse than a table read where there's no laughs and Steve Carell is there.

And then it kind of turned, and like the energy of the room, just like it was electric.

And it was just...

I mean, it's a career highlight.

Like it was just insane.

And like people couldn't get out the lines.

And it's just 'cause the way we constructed it is just the screws just keep getting turned.

It just gets like harder and harder to sit in that room.

The script is very much, you know, it's 95% of what we had written originally.

- He fits perfectly.

[laughs] - You know, I'm gonna bring up "Scott's Tots" 'cause I also think this is this... Because it's similar, right?

- Sure.

- There's a similar- - Like you have to take a shower after - Right?

- During the viewing.

- I fell in love with these kids, and I didn't wanna see them fall victim to the system.

So I made 'em a promise.

I told them that if they graduated from high school, I would pay for their college education.

I've made some empty promises in my life, but, hands down, that was the most generous.

- But I have to admit, it was... And at the same time, as uncomfortable as it was, and as much as you hate him in that moment, then there's, you know, this, you know, redemption with the school books.

You know, you guys wrote that one too.

So I'd like to hear a little bit about that.

The process of writing stuff that's in that line like "Women's Appreciation" is similar.

Like you're riding the line of going too far in moments that are making people not laugh anymore, but uncomfortable somewhat, and then taking them back to that laugh.

You know, it's a little bit of a fish hook there.

- The brilliance of the writer's room of "The Office" is that, you know, I obviously have jokes that I'm incredibly proud of in other people's scripts, and people have some of their best material in ours, but everyone kind of approached the characters in slightly different ways.

I think that Gene and I really...

I think the British "Office" was such an inspiration for us and not just an inspiration, but really kind of was like a north star for us comedically, both on "The Office" and outside of "The Office."

And the British "Office" was so cringe.

And so Mike Schur, his episodes are hilarious, but kind of like, he saw the best in Michael.

There's like optimism, and I think like Mike does "Parks and Rec," and I think you see that DNA.

And I don't know what it says about us, but, we, the kind of, the kind of the comedy engine for us was like, how can people slink lower in their seats while watching it?

And "Scott's Tots" like, it's like if you thought "Dinner Party" was at times unpleasant, "Scott's Tots" is really... Like there's a Reddit thread about people talking about their experience watching "Scott's Tots."

And we wrote "The Lover," which was about Michael dating Pam's mom.

So I think that those...

I don't know what it is about us.

I'd really have to bring my therapist [audience laughs] out here and Gene's therapist, and we could really kind of have a nice little collective.

But yes, I mean I think, you know, always having those redemptive moments for Michael, understanding what makes someone tick.

And so Michael isn't a bad guy.

He makes terrible decisions.

And "Scott's Tots," for those of you who haven't seen it, is Michael had promised a bunch of kids I think when they were in third grade that he would pay for their college education because Michael thought when he was older that he'd be a millionaire and that he would pay for these 30 kids to go to college, which is incredibly generous.

But now, it's 10 years later, and there were articles in the paper, local businessman is going to pay, and now it's 10 years later, and Michael, he has less money than he had 10 years earlier.

[audience laughs] And he goes, and he doesn't say, "I don't have the money."

And he goes to the school.

The kids are talking about how inspirational he has been as a kind of a mentor to them.

They do a dance routine.

There's a rap.

Gene and I wrote a rap.

We had to hire professional dancers.

There's a flip.

And Michael doesn't say, "I don't have the money."

And just the audience knows from like minute three and I think in minute 15 or later, he's like, "I don't have the money, but good news, you're all gonna get lithium batteries for laptops that I will also not give you."

- I mean, I think it was wrapped around that stuff that was going on in "The Office" about the employee of the month or whatever.

And so it actually ended up, you know, the moments there were a little... Just they were lighter.

- Yeah.

- So you'd go, you know- - You were able to cut back and forth, - Right.

- If you wanted to take a breath.

- Yeah, [laughs] just what we needed.

- Yeah.

[both laugh] [typewriter dings] - We were talking about Shane Black a minute ago, and he has this thing about reversals and, you know, action film concept.

And it's interesting to me that I feel like you use that process in your comedy that because you're always taking people here and then you're back here and then back here, and it seems like an interesting concept for comedy.

And in addition to those episodes of "The Office," I felt like "Good Boys" was full of it.

Like you were just constantly, you know, taking them.

It was almost Rube Goldberg of, you know, back and forth and back and forth, but then it actually hooks you, and then you're waiting for the next moment.

And I wanna like hear a little bit about how you and he viewed comedy particularly in those because you were co-writing those as well.

- If there is an evolution in my career from "The Office" to "Bad Teacher," then "Hello Ladies," and then "Good Boys" on the comedy side of things, maybe to "Jury Duty," it's, I think that Gene and I, the idea of not having a joke, like every single moment we would undercut with comedy, like the idea of like having someone have like an honest moment was so terrifying to us because I think we felt very comfortable with the comedy, and I think anything that felt like you were trying to kind of, you know, wrestle out emotion, it was like, but it's not gonna be funny, we'll lose the audience.

And then, I think as we gain more confidence, I think the audience craves those moments.

And I think in- when you're able to pull those moments off in a comedy and you do care about the characters to a certain point, just, I think that enlivens everything.

In "Good Boys," like we really did want to have an emotional ending like, in the sense that these three kids that are in sixth grade, and like they have no concept.

You know, they're 12 and like all they know is each other and that the idea that they're all kind of pulling apart from one another and like they have an inkling that maybe that like that's happening, but they still wanna hold onto one another.

So we had this moment where like really to me, it felt very touching with, you know, these three boys kind of embracing at the end.

And then of course, we undercut it because they like get on a sex swing, and like the movie ends with like Barry White and like singing and like slow motion of kids like unwittingly being on their parents' sex swing.

So, you know, I think that's a thing where it's like it was both sweet and touching, but also had a sex swing, which to me is the formula for great comedy.

[audience laughs] - It did ultimately feel very wholesome for a movie that had all drugs, mollies, you know.

Is it molly?

Whatever.

- The plural of molly is mollies, yes.

- Molly, molly, okay.

Wasn't really sure.

[all laugh] And all the sex toys, which were fantastically used, by the way.

Who would've ever thought?

Great props, but- - My mom was so proud.

[all laugh] - But at the same time, I loved every one of those kids at the end.

I didn't feel like they were vehicles for the jokes, you know?

- Yeah, and I think that I mean that's a testament to the writing and a true testament to the rewriting of it.

You know, the original draft of "Good Boys" was relentless with jokes.

And I think the heart was something that we kind of discovered later in the process.

And those kids delivered.

I mean, it was just a really, you know, months and months and months of seeing every single 12-year-old in America who had the, you know, kind of a slight desire to act we saw.

And then, you know, the kind of the alchemy of those three kids is really, you know, that changes everything.

- The "Bowfinger" moment that you guys had in there with the highway crossing, you just knocked it outta the park.

And the Rube Goldberg piece was it doesn't just end with a car crash.

[laughs] There's that Stephen Merchant moment that ends up cleaning it up with the doll.

You don't ever let up.

It really was a stakes and reversals.

- We wanted kind of big set pieces, and we wanted action, and we wanted it to feel kinetic.

And, you know, we knew that there were gonna be talkie scenes, and I think there's a lot of really fun verbal jokes in the movie, but we really wrote it where like we wanted to feel propulsive.

And I think both of us really love stories where the stakes are incredibly low, but to the characters, like they're massive.

And so, you know, the premise of "Good Boys" is these kids break their dad's drone, and they need to get to the mall to get a new drone, but like, they're trying to get to a kissing party.

And it's like there have been all these movies of high school kids trying to lose their virginity, and there had never been an R-rated comedy with 12-year-olds, probably 'cause people are better people than me and Gene.

And they're like, "Well, you shouldn't do that."

You know, we thought there was something really fun about the innocence of it.

And so we started talking about all of these, like, how can you kind of keep ratcheting up the stakes with these kids?

And so it's like, you know, he's gonna sip a beer.

It's like you're like, oh no.

He's like, oh my God, someone's gonna sip a beer.

Like 'cause I remember like my friend Elihu would like go into his parents' fridge and sip a beer in sixth grade.

I was like, oh my God, like, he must be an alcoholic.

It's the only possibility.

[audience laughs] And so, you know, you kind of pull all these things from your life, and I can't remember exactly how the freeway scene came about.

I think maybe at some point me or Gene had crossed like the lowest stakes version, you know, of one of those at a time in our life.

And that was kind of like everything was building to that moment in the movie, and it was also like we wanted everything to come from character.

We want everything to feel emotional, then make it as outrageous as possible.

[typewriter ding] - Let's get to "Jury Duty."

So I mean, just I think the...

So I'm sure you've probably talked about this a bunch, but the astounding part was that you could pull that off, right?

- Easy.

- So easy, yeah.

And that all these pieces, whatever, got put together to have this one poor person [laughs] not know anything, which just seems incredible to me.

So can you talk about like how, you know, how, was that hard to get people to believe that you could do it in order to get that show moved forward?

- One thing really that was very important to us when we were taking around the pitch was we were never punching down.

The joke was never at Ronald's expense.

It was really we wanted to take someone on a hero's journey and that it was someone who's kind of, you know, in the pitch again.

You know, Ronald is so much better than what we ever could have imagined.

But it was kind of someone who's a little bit of a wallflower that ends up kind of having this "12 Angry Men" moment.

[folks chatter] [person shouts] [courtroom screams] - You good?

- Oh, yeah, ow!

- Holy [bleep.

- Just don't move, look at me.

- What was he doing?

- Just don't move.

- What happened?

- God [bleep].

- Just don't move, just look at me.

You good?

- Ow.

Yeah.

- You know and kind of convincing the other jurors.

And he brought something that was even even better than that.

And, you know, those characters ended up creating like a real...

The actors really created, you know, a bond with one another, and I think that there's something.

I think the show is very funny.

I think it has a lot of heart to it, and I think it feels cozy.

And to me, it really felt like a throwback to shows like "The Office," and also there were jokes in it I think that weirdly people have stopped making comedies.

And so having a show that had jokes in it, I think was like, oh, that's so fun.

I'm sitting at home and I'm laughing.

What a fun thing that is.

[audience laughs] But the process of selling it, I mean, these producers, Dave Bernad and Todd Schulman, brought it to me and Gene.

Gene and I had developed a jury duty show that was scripted, and we kind of combined the two things and it just came together.

You know, casting Ronald was lightning in a bottle.

Getting James Marsden to do that role was like I don't totally understand why he chose to do it.

It was a very smart decision for him ultimately, but if I could talk to...

If I was then there like as his friend like, "I don't know, is that the right show for you?"

[audience laughs] But I mean, he was incredible.

And the process of making that show is you have a plan, and, you know, we've rented out this place, and Ronald's on stage.

Like, he will get on the stage.

Like, we will figure out the way to get him on stage, but you don't know what's gonna happen in this, and you don't even know what the actors are gonna say.

And you're pulling the actors aside to do talking heads and you say, "Hey, make sure, you know, get Ronald to go over there" and whatever, but like you don't know if Ronald's gonna be, you know, invested in the case, in the trial.

You don't know if Ronald's gonna be a gossip, if Ronald's gonna be above it, like all of these things.

And so you're constantly having to kind of duck and weave throughout it.

I'm generally delighted by the way that the world operates.

I write a lot of stuff down, and I don't know where it's going to land.

I think all comedy writers, I think all comedians are just observing.

[typewriter ding] [Narrator] You've been watching a conversation with Lee Eisenberg on "On Story."

"On Story" is part of a growing number of programs in Austin Film Festival's On Story Project that also includes the "On Story" radio program, podcast, book series, and the On Story archive accessible through the Wittliff Collections at Texas State University.

To find out more about "On Story" and Austin Film Festival, visit onstory.tv or austinfilmfestival.com.

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