- Today on "Austin InSight" as the "Austin City Limits" TV show marks its 50th anniversary, we sit down with executive producer, Terry Lickona, for an in-depth interview.

- And look back at the major milestones and the future of the longest running music show on television.

- "Austin InSight" starts right now.

- [Announcer] Support for "Austin InSight" comes from Sally and James Gavin, and also from Suerte, Este and Bar Toti Restaurants bringing Austin together around culinary excellence to celebrate creativity, conservation, and culture in central Texas.

(mellow techno music) (mellow techno music continues) - Hello and welcome to "Austin InSight."

I'm Laura Laughead.

- And I'm Danielle Banda.

Well, it's a TV show that created a national image for Austin, while also shaping American music for the past 50 years.

- We are of course talking about "Austin City Limits," and it all started right here at Austin PBS.

- From Humble beginnings to a global force in music, "ACL," the TV show has earned respect and trust among both music lovers and musicians with unforgettable performances that captivated audiences in person in our studios and on television nationwide.

Our news and public affairs director, Ed Bryson, sat down with the show's longtime executive producer, Terry Lickona, for a 50th anniversary special interview.

(mellow techno music) - Evening everybody, welcome to "Austin City Limits."

(audience cheering) This is the 50th anniversary of "Austin City Limits" right here, 2024.

(audience cheering) - If you just think back to when you got started working on the show at all, my hunch is in your wildest dreams, it didn't occur to you get quite this big.

Is that right?

What were your thoughts in those days?

- Oh, in my wildest dreams, I didn't even anticipate that I'd have anything whatsoever to do with it since that was not my background, nor was it my goal when I first moved to Austin.

But once I did get my foot in the door and got involved with the show as basically an assistant to the producers at the time, nobody, myself, including the original producer team, thought the show would last literally more than a few years if that.

Finding the funding for the show just to keep "Austin City Limits" going was never a given.

I mean, it was always a challenge, and the fact that we've met those challenges and figured a way to deal with them over the last 50 years is really a testament to the show's success and to the support that it's had.

So when we celebrated our 10th anniversary, that seemed like a big deal and we thought, well, this is about as good as it gets, how much more can we keep doing?

And then 15, 20, 25, and every other year and every other decade rolled along until we hit 50, which is still hard to believe, but we are here.

- The music industry has of course changed like everything else that's been upended and disrupted by technology, but this relatively straightforward television show just stays and it stays relevant.

That impact that it has is still happening.

Why is that?

Why is that happening still for this program?

- It's really hard to like dig deep and analyze what is the key to "Austin City Limits'" success.

Why has it lasted this long?

Why does it continue to have the appeal it has, not only the way it began, but also to a new generation, three generations probably of artists and to music fans.

Well, it's really not a secret, it's very simple, it's a very straightforward format.

Obviously it's all about the music.

Yes, we do include pieces of interviews with the artists at the end of each program, but that only brings a little more insight into who that artist is and why they create the music that they do.

But otherwise, when the world started to change back in the '80s and MTV and VH1 came along and there were a dozen or more cable channels and everybody thought that they spelled the doom of PBS, not only music programs and channels, but everything from arts and entertainment to discovery, et cetera.

And so we did talk amongst ourselves about maybe we should change up the format because is anybody gonna be interested in watching a straight concert music program on television?

Well, as we all know, if you look at MTV or VH1 today, there's very little music to be found.

There are music videos to be found everywhere online, on YouTube, but there is still not a straight music show.

It is just about real music performed live on TV and that had a place, it still has a place and hopefully it always will.

- Billie!

(audience cheering) - Tell me about when, what music was like in your life from the beginning of it.

Did you grow up in a musical household?

What influenced you as a youngster?

- Well, I grew up in the '60s and '70s, so of course the music that I was influenced by was the music of those times.

I'm from Poughkeepsie, New York, which is about 75 miles north of New York City.

The people in New York would consider it to be upstate, but we were close enough to New York to be in the orbit of New York City, which meant that I grew up listening to New York City Radio and watching television.

And if I wanted to go to a concert, I could just hop on a train and be in New York City in an hour.

And so that was the beauty of growing up where I lived.

But on the downside, there wasn't a lot of music around Poughkeepsie and my family was not the least bit musical, which in retrospect, I regret that I didn't have that kind of influence or inspiration coming from my own home.

And my other regret is that I never learned how to play a musical instrument, even to this day.

My goal at the time when I went to college was to get a college degree in journalism.

I sort of had a fantasy about becoming a reporter for the "New York Times," being stationed overseas and all over the world.

But the college I went to in Albany, New York, didn't offer a journalism program.

So I got my degree in history, which was my next kind of love.

But also they had a radio station at the college, and I joined the radio club and that's when a couple of people commented that I had a good voice for radio, which, you know, I had nothing to do with.

It just kind of happened that way after puberty.

And so once I got started, I realized this is not a bad gig, not a bad way to make money, just kind of sitting in a room and playing music and talking every now and then.

So I continued to do that and got a part-time job at the radio station in my hometown of Poughkeepsie.

But I did have a really good friend who was a musician in that area, played in the clubs with his band, the Arm Brothers.

And he was the one who told me all about Austin.

I really wasn't aware of it at all, other than it was the capital of Texas.

And he started talking to me about all of this music down here.

And I first learned of Willie Nelson from my friend, Dan.

And at some point he said, "Let's take a road trip to Texas.

There's this picnic that they do every summertime that Willie puts on."

And we drove down here in the middle of summer, went to Willie Nelson's 4th of July Picnic in 1974.

And basically at the end of three days, we both decided we were going to move up, move here, just pack up everything, quit my job, and moved to Texas.

(upbeat country music) ♪ Whiskey river, take my mind ♪ - I literally moved to Austin two weeks after they taped the pilot show with Willie Nelson.

And when I started my job at KUT, they were taping "Austin City Limits."

Once the show was committed for a season.

And I would grab a ticket or two and go to the tapings and I'd sit out on the floor, which was the way they had it set up back then.

And I would watch Flaco Jimenez and Texas Playboys and all of the shows that they did during those early, the first couple, two to three years.

I got to know the producers of "ACL" back then.

Charles Vaughn was the producer for the third season, and I asked them if they maybe would like to have somebody to help out since they were a pretty bare bones operation.

They took me up on my offer.

So within a year, all of those people who started the show and basically those who booked Willie and who guided it through the first couple of years left.

And that created a vacuum of course, and seeing an opportunity, I sort of mustered up the courage, walked into the station manager's office and basically pitched myself for the job.

I don't even think the management at KLRU at the time expected it to last that much longer.

But I was afraid that since the original "ACL" team had left, they needed to hire somebody else to step in and take the wheel.

So if not me, then who would it be?

When they moved on, I made my move to sort of step into their shoes as a fledgling producer and they realized it would be cheaper to hire me to do it than to bring in somebody else from LA or New York or somewhere with more experience.

So I grabbed it.

- She's so far up stage, I don't know if the jib's gonna be able to do anything.

- The overwhelming majority who have worked on "ACL" have been there for years, decades, many decades.

And they've shown that commitment, loyalty, passion, combination of all of those things to really stay together.

I'm happy to take credit for this or that, including some of the talent bookings over the years, but I think the thing I'm the most proud of is that I've hired the best people to do the jobs that they do for all of these years.

One of the things that we have changed over the years is the production values of the show.

In the beginning it was very straightforward.

I think we had what maybe four cameras, the lighting was like kitchen lighting.

You look at it today, it is a different looking show.

Our skyline even looks bigger and prettier and the colored lights and the beams and so forth definitely add an artistic touch to the show.

You have more cameras.

So in that sense, it has evolved as all things must to be a better quality, higher production value show.

But at the heart of it, it's still just as simple as it was in the beginning.

We basically offer our stage up to whoever the artist or band is for the day.

They get to do whatever they want, set up a stage, basically any way that they want to, perform the set list of songs as they want.

And they even get to choose the songs and make the final edit, and they have the right to remix the music if they want to on their own afterwards.

That kind of collaboration and that kind of artistic freedom is so rare, if not unheard of.

And it shows, and it comes across that way too.

The audience gets to see the kind of show that that artist, that band want for them to see.

It's entirely in their hands.

We just capture it and make it look as good as it can.

And that was the basis of "ACL" when it started out, you know, the fact that Willie Nelson was the first person to perform on the pilot show and that kind of launched the whole series, the whole concept, and it became a national series from then on.

So when I became producer, it was pretty obvious to me by season four that we needed to stretch those limits.

And by booking Tom Waits as the first show, that certainly made a point that we were definitely opening the doors to all kinds of different music.

But there have been milestones over the years, getting Ray Charles to do the show certainly took it to a new level and made it easier to attract other national caliber type talent, superstars essentially.

But I'll admit that a lot of it had to do with my personal taste and the fact that I was in the unique position as the producer of booking whatever talent I wanted to.

From Austin, Texas, "Austin City Limits" presents an hour of country music in the Texas tradition.

We dove deeply into country music.

Once we sort of decided to expand beyond Austin and Texas country, we incorporated a lot of Nashville style country music into the show.

Maybe it had gone a little too far in that direction.

And then we kind of shifted the gears once again and decided we should be a more eclectic show and mix up the talent even beyond just country or even just beyond roots music.

And so when we started booking bands like Wilco, Pearl Jam, Radiohead, REM and so forth, that was obviously a step in a whole new direction.

And eventually over time, I think the "ACL" Festival, when it came around right after the turn of the century, that really also helped to drive this expansion of the music mix in the show.

So that essentially in today's, in today's world, "Austin City Limits" means whatever you want it to mean.

It's good music from anywhere and everywhere, whether it's country music, Latin music, hip hop, Indie music, whatever that means, rock and roll, of course, music from Africa, from Australia, from Asia, from again, from anywhere and everywhere.

- [Ed] 6A is legendary on the campus.

Basically a big high ceiling black box of a room, but became this amazing special space.

Why was that?

- Studio 6A on the UT campus was definitely just a big black box when they finished that building in 1974.

And they didn't really seem to know for sure what they were gonna do with it at the time.

It was a strange place to become a rock and roll landmark, which the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame designated it.

(audience cheering) It was on the sixth floor of a building with very difficult access, a freight elevator that was shared by the entire building, not just for our use.

There were only maybe two or three bathrooms within those six floors that people could use.

We had to literally write to the president of UT every time we did a taping to ask for permission to serve beer because it was an academic building and alcoholic beverages were not allowed.

We would get a special dispensation.

And the loading and unloading and the driveway down below was difficult.

Long story short, there were a lot of things working against it, and yet it lasted for 36 years in that same space.

And it just took on a certain kind of magic after not that many years.

And it was the music within those four walls that made it so magical.

I remember when we weren't doing a show just walking into that studio from time to time by myself and you could just almost hear the echoes of music from over the years reverberating in the room in this empty room with an empty stage.

And not to say that it was like haunted by spirits, but there definitely were plenty of spirits from the music over the years.

And memories, the memories of what happened in that room all of which fortunately were captured on video.

- We'd like to do one more song to close out "Austin City Limits" at Studio 6A and we would love it if you guys would leave your posts and join us on stage.

(audience cheering) - We knew we had outgrown Studio 6A when the University of Texas Fire Marshal cut our capacity down to 300 when it used to be 700 plus.

We knew that eventually something had to give, but we were a public television station, so we didn't have the resources to just go out and build or, you know, buy a new studio soundstage.

So at some point we were approached by a commercial developer, Stratus Properties, who built a lot of commercial development outside in and around Austin.

And they approached us and asked if we'd be willing to move to a new studio, if they would build it for us and pay for it.

That's kind of offer that's hard to resist and didn't take long to decide that let's look into this.

And on top of that, they basically gave us carte blanche to design this space as we see fit, to make sure that it accommodated our needs.

We were able, you know, to design a space that we felt was as true to the original, but on a bigger grander scale as possible.

And we feel like we were successful.

There were definitely some sleepless nights where we wondered if we messed this up, we'd be run out of town, you know, ruining a good thing like "Austin City Limits."

But we managed to maintain the same kind of intimate vibe by the design of the room.

Most people are surprised to learn that the actual footprint of the new space at the Moody Theater is exactly the same as Studio 6A.

It still has that vibe, that intimacy that was so important in Studio 6A.

So it's been a win-win for us, for the artists, for the city of Austin.

Our profile in downtown Austin now obviously is, very high and there are no regrets looking back, but at the time we were definitely pulling out our hair and sweating, is this really the right thing to do?

- [Ed] And will that specialness transfer, it did obviously.

(audience cheering) - So doing this show, you know, this is an honor for any band.

We don't have to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame anymore 'cause we're playing this show tonight.

- Every time I look back and I see this image, I say no, no, no, no, no, no, I can't believe it.

I'm in "Austin City Limits," Ah.

(audience cheering) - 50 years of "Austin City Limits," Austin, Texas what's up?

- [Ed] Where does this all go from here?

This is 50 years.

What else is left for you guys to do, do you think?

- In some ways we've referred to this 50th as a bridge to the future, although frankly in my mind you could say that about almost any year in the 50 year history of "Austin City Limits," because every year, every season that we do is really a bridge or a pathway to the next year.

And that bridge, that pathway is paved with music, with new talent.

That's in my mind, what the show is all about and has been and should be all about is showcasing new music, bringing new blood to that stage, a new generation of talent and finding other ways maybe to get it out to the world.

I don't wanna mess with the format.

You know, we thought about that once upon a time when MTV and VH1 came along and we thought we had to change.

People told us, "You have to change," but we didn't.

What we changed was the music we changed the mix, the people have always referred to our music show as a gumbo of all different kinds of genres and styles of music, which is a true way to put it.

But we just need to find some new ways maybe to get that gumbo of music out to the rest of the world.

But otherwise it would be a big mistake in my mind to mess with the format, the formula that has made the show so successful, popular, and has lasted for 50 years.

(mellow techno music) - Terry has something in common with other PBS legends like Fred Rogers, Ken Burns, Bill Moyers, Judy Woodruff, all our national PBS Beacon Award winners.

- [Laura] It's an honor to be a part of his neighborhood here at Austin, PBS.

- One of the coolest things about "ACL" is that a number of the production team have worked on the program for decades.

- Longevity is a big part of the "Austin City Limits" legacy, and no one embodies that more than Scott Newton, who's been taking photos for the show since 1979.

He's shot literally hundreds of thousands of stunning photos.

Let's take a look behind the lens of Scott Newton.

(bright guitar music) - People are like jewels in the sense that they have many facets.

You know, I'm getting this facet, but let's get another one.

Let's, you know, let's shoot a back shot, let's shoot different kinds of things.

Trying to evoke a different facet.

Yeah, because each, each facet, you know, shows a part of the truth, not all of the truth.

(bright guitar music continues) Music comes from another place, not necessarily from the person, and they call that other place the muse.

This is a illustration of the process.

The muse is spiritual, not in any particular place, but out in the air, out in the ether.

And there she is on the way I see it, those fingernails, you know, pulling it in, giving voice.

That's one of my better shots.

I got the gig by shooting a whole bunch of pictures at the Armadillo when it first opened.

One thing led into another, and the next thing I know, I'm the house photographer at the Austin Opera House, which was owned by Willie Nelson at the time.

I had a good friend who was visiting me named Jody Fisher, and she was Willie's unofficial secretary.

And she said to me, "You know, they need a photographer down at 'Austin City Limits.'"

And I said, "I don't know anybody down there."

She said, "Well, I do," and she picked up the phone, rotary dial, and dialed a number and said, "Terry," it turned out to be Terry Lickona.

"Terry, I've got somebody you need to meet."

And so I went over the next day, showed my stuff to Terry, I can see him holding them up to the, the slides up to the lights.

And he said, "Well, these are great."

He said, "I can't tell you you're hired today, but you're hired."

(Scott laughs) So that was 1979 and that was 46 years ago now.

(gentle guitar music) what I'm doing is I'm essentially forging background publicity photos, as good a publicity photo as I can do.

I'm trying to make immortal portraits that can also be used for a practical purpose.

And I succeeded here.

(audience cheering) I just saw it as a continuation for me to get to render what it is that musicians do, which is, you know, pull those great songs out of the air and present 'em to us.

You're shooting photographs, you're trying for things that represent larger stuff.

So you're looking for that.

And so you look for juxtapositions, you look for, you know, all the times when that, when the spirit's being revealed and when the muse is present is what I like to say, music is the sound the muses make.

That's what the Greeks thought.

That's what it is.

That's the definition of music.

And so I try to find that.

I try to find the visual aspect of that.

Obviously music is oral, but a visual conveys it as well.

And so I try to find that.

And when you do it right, you can actually hear the music, you know, when you look at the picture, at least I think you can.

I do.

(Scott laughs) (gentle guitar music) The thing about photography is that it's not static.

The truth changes from moment to moment.

And the job of a photographer is to discern that change, discern when the truth shifts from here to another truth.

And to try to reveal that and try to comment on it.

Kind of what I do is condense.

It's condense what's there.

All this motion, all this activity into powerful moments that convey the spirit of that person.

That's what I'm out there, that's what I'm doing.

Always.

(audience cheering) (gentle music) - That photo of Dolly Parton is simply iconic.

The 50th anniversary celebration continues this week at ACL Live in downtown Austin.

A two hour national PBS special is being recorded.

- There's a star studded lineup, including Leon Bridges, Lyle Lovett, Billy Strings, Gary Clark Jr. And so many more.

The show is gonna air next spring and you're not gonna wanna miss it.

- Well, that's our program, thanks so much for joining us.

We're gonna take a quick Thanksgiving break next week, but we're back on December 5th with more news and features right here on "Austin InSight."

- We'll see you then and in the meantime, don't forget, you can stream each episode on the PBS app.

- [Both] Happy Thanksgiving.

(mellow techno music) (mellow techno music continues) (mellow music continues) (mellow techno music continues) - [Announcer] Support for "Austin InSight" comes from Sally and James Gavin, and also from Suerte, Este and Bar Toti Restaurants, bringing Austin together around culinary excellence to celebrate creativity, conservation, and culture in central Texas.

(bright flute music)