(no audio) (no audio) (no audio) (relaxing blues music) [Willie Mae] An Alabama kid, I like good singing.

(relaxing blues music continues) (relaxing blues music continues) ♪ Lord, I feel ♪ ♪ The way I feel ♪ ♪ I see ♪ ♪ The way I see ♪ ♪ And my Lord ♪ ♪ All the way ♪ ♪ Belong to me ♪ ♪ Oh yeah, belong to me ♪ ♪ Love ♪ ♪ Is a precious thing ♪ ♪ And the world ♪ ♪ Got to break everything ♪ ♪ I feel ♪ My father, he was a minister.

♪ In this world ♪ My mother, she was a Christian-hearted working woman.

She sang Christian songs.

I used to go to church a lot, but didn't do too much singing in church.

I just admired good singing, you know?

The Dixie Hummingbirds, The Soul Stirrers, Mahalia Jackson, the Davis Sisters, they just knocked me out, I'm telling you.

♪ Speak soft ♪ (mournful music) Her mother died, when I believe she was like in the fourth or fifth grade.

This is to say that Willie Mae Thornton, one of the greatest, I think, blues philosophers that exist today, could be described as functionally illiterate.

(dog barks) Her father was left a widow.

He had multiple children.

They travel around Alabama, moving from place to place, trying to figure out how they can make ends meet.

One of those ways was Willie Mae working as a domestic laborer.

[Willie Mae] I left there when I was 14, with a show, with Sammy Green's Hot Harlem Revue out of Atlanta, Georgia.

(upbeat blues music) Diamond Teeth Mary is a veteran performer.

She removed the diamonds from her bracelet and has them placed in her teeth.

So she's traveling with the Sammy Green's Hot Harlem Revue, and they make a stop in Montgomery, Alabama, and she hears this little girl who's on a garbage truck, working, "Come and perform for us tonight."

[Willie Mae] So we give an audition.

He says, "Oh, little old girl, you can't sing."

I said, "Will you give me a try?

I'd been singing on the little talent shows around here."

Had on a pair of jean, one leg rolled up.

I got up and I started singing, and he hired me.

(upbeat big band music) She started off much in the way that Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey, who traveled these roads before her, did, as part of a variety show.

[Lynnee] We're talking about almost like a traveling circus-like community of artists, that had to figure out what it meant to be a multidisciplinary artist.

[Preston] Well, they had everything.

They had comedy, they had dancers, they had novelty acts.

[Willie Mae] Dancers, chorus girls, comedians, singers.

She had a sense of humor that was rooted in this kind of black, playing the dozens, signifying tradition, consistent with one of her close friends, Little Richard, who was also shaped by that same community.

[Willie Mae] We went Atlanta, Birmingham, Columbus, Georgia, Macon, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida.

We just toured practically everywhere.

[Preston] Sammy Green's Hot Harlem Revue traveled extensively in the South.

They publicized their routes, as they would say, "Coming to Chattanooga," "Coming to Memphis," "Coming to Greenwood."

[Willie Mae] Up until '48, that's when I quit the show in Houston, Texas.

With Sammy Green, she was unsatisfied with, maybe the lack of urgency with him paying her.

There were a lot of shady business promoters that exploited vulnerable artists, you know, who needed to move from place to place to survive.

[Willie Mae] In Houston, I started recording to Don Robey.

[Preston] Don Robey was the original hustler in the black music business.

He started off as a dance promoter, started a talent agency, as well as a record label.

Ended up opening a nightclub.

He was a bit of a gambler.

Floyd Dixon told me about Don Robey, how he'd come to LA and play high-stakes poker, and we're talking like six figures in the early 1950s.

Well, that's like playing for millions now.

[Preston] He had a gangster aura about him that he cultivated, but he carried a gun.

He could be pretty dramatic and theatrical about it.

♪ Yes, I'm happy ♪ [Willie Mae] Don Robey, he came out to the club I was working, called the El Dorado Ballroom, there on Elgin and Dowling, to hear me sing.

Right then, he wanted me under a contract, but I didn't sign right then.

(laughs) She is very aware from the start, intuitively, that Robey can't necessarily be trusted.

(upbeat blues music) [Willie Mae] '51, I cut this record, "Let Your Tears Fall, Baby," so Don Robey put me on the show in his night club.

♪ Your tears fall, baby ♪ Johnny Otis, he came to town.

That was in '52.

Johnny was Greek, but his heart and soul was black music.

[Lynnee] Don Robey asked Johnny Otis to figure out how to take on Willie Mae and make her marketable and create a sound around who this woman was.

And he asked Johnny Otis to take Willie Mae on the road.

(playful blues music) [Willie Mae] We left Houston and went to Los Angeles.

My partner, Jerry, and I had been working with Johnny Otis writing songs.

He needed songs, and we were fast.

Johnny called me one day and he said, "You familiar with Willie Mae Thornton?"

And I said, "No, I don't know who that is."

He said, "Well, you better get Jerry and come over to my place."

I was still living with my parents.

I had a car, I had a '37 Plymouth.

And I picked up Jerry, and we drove over to Johnny's house, and he had a garage and it was open and it was set up like a bandstand.

He introduced us to Big Mama Thornton, who wasn't necessarily particularly excited about meeting us.

I mean, two white teenagers.

She was very tough looking, scars on her face.

Then we heard her sing, and she knocked us out.

Jerry and I jumped back in my car, drove back to my house.

In about 10 or 15 minutes, we'd written a song called "Hound Dog."

She started to kind of sing it as a ballad or crooning it.

Jerry said, "Ah, Mama, it don't go like this."

She said, "Don't tell me how it goes."

So we went to the recording studio the next day.

On our way, Jerry said, "Man, she oughta growl it."

I said, "Yeah!

You tell her."

(laughs) One of us finally said, "Mama, why don't you growl it?"

And she said, "Don't be telling me how to sing the blues!"

She said something to the effect, "I don't need no help in singing this song.

I can do it myself."

She liked it, they liked it, Johnny Otis liked it.

We did the first take and she growled, and she was incredible.

I mean, we knew this was a hit.

(cicadas buzzing) She signed a contract for a one-time payment to make that song.

That one time $500 payment was something that was crafted by Don Robey.

(upbeat blues music) [Willie Mae] We recorded "Hound Dog," but Don Robey put it on the shelf.

On tour, we goes from Los Angeles, San Francisco, Fillmore Auditorium, go back through Houston, Texas, battling the Blues with Gabriel Brown.

We leave them, goes on through Florida, and on back up all around the East Coast there, coming into New York.

We goes into Apollo, that was in June.

Course I didn't have no hit record, but I was singing everybody else's records.

When I went into the Apollo Theater, you'd be surprised what I went over with big.

"Have Mercy, Mercy Baby," by The Dominoes.

(laughs) (blues horn music) At The Apollo, following her week long residence, she blows the house down.

Frank Schiffman names her.

He said, "Give it up for Big Mama."

(audience cheers boisterously) [Willie Mae] For the last part of '52, we goes Providence, Rhode Island and Boston, Massachusetts.

I wanted to go home.

Kinda homesick, so I wanted to see the old gang, so I caught a train.

I leave New York, come back to Houston, and I got there just a little before Christmas.

So Don Robey, he put me on a show in his nightclub.

I went to San Antone and I worked down there, playing for the theater there.

I forget the name of the theater.

But anyway, I was going to the theater and I just turned the radio on in the car, and the man said, "Here's a record, it's gone nationwide.

'Hound Dog' by Willie Mae Thornton!"

I said, "That's me!"

♪ You ain't nothing but a hound dog ♪ ♪ Been snoopin' 'round my door ♪ ♪ You ain't nothin' but a hound dog ♪ ♪ Been snoopin' 'round my door ♪ ♪ You can wag your tail ♪ ♪ But I ain't gonna feed you no more ♪ So when we got to the theater, they was blasting it there.

You could hear it from the theater, from the loud speaker, and I know they just playing "Hound Dog" all over the theater.

So I goes up there in the operating room, I said, "You mind playing that again?"

So I stood there while he was playing it, listening to it.

So that evening I sang it on the show, and everybody went for it.

"Hound Dog" just took off like a jet.

Don Robey's first major hit, the one that his empire is founded on, the one that is most responsible for his success, was by Big Mama Thornton, "Hound Dog."

Don Robey, and primarily Evelyn Johnson, Robey's business partner, were pushing these artists out on the road to sell records.

They were making money off of these personal appearances.

[Willie Mae] In 1953, they sent me to Dayton, Ohio.

That's when I met Johnny Ace.

[Preston] Johnny Ace was a singer who came from Memphis, recorded a string of hits, number ones for Don Robey.

Hit after hit after hit!

He was an absolute sensation.

Johnny was real smooth, toured a lot with Big Mama Thornton, and they really were a nice contrast together.

♪ Well I love you, Daddy ♪ Johnny Ace has been called, "The first casualty of rock and roll."

The travel, the recording, he partied quite a lot, had his girlfriends all over the place.

Johnny would get bored driving down the road and fire his gun out the window at street signs.

(gunfire blasting) You know, Johnny would pretend to shoot somebody.

Johnny was always screwing around with his weapon like that, and people didn't like it.

(ornaments jingling) Christmas night, 1954, Johnny Ace and Big Mama Thornton were booked to play a Christmas night dance at the Houston City Auditorium.

Houston is Don Robey and Evelyn Johnson's home base.

Johnny and Big Mama had just done one of their duet numbers and that closed the set.

There was supposed to be another set.

Big Mama and a couple of the musicians and their boyfriends and girlfriends were sitting in the dressing room behind the stage passing a vodka bottle around.

There are several versions of what happened next.

Johnny's playing with his little silver .22 pistol, like he always does.

(gun cylinder clicking) And, Big Mama's hollering at him.

He was pointing the gun at his girlfriend's head and pulling the trigger.

She got very upset.

She said, "Why don't you put it to your own head?"

And he did.

Pulled the trigger.

(gunfire blasts) It wasn't but a split second, and then he was dead, -shot himself.

-(mourner screaming) [Lee] She felt guilty because she could have stopped it.

♪ I smell a rat, baby ♪ ♪ I smell a rat, baby ♪ She did 11 singles for Robey.

They gave her a lot of titles that referred to the animal kingdom, one way or the other.

♪ And I ♪ ♪ Oh man, ain't this a drag ♪ ♪ It is goin' on three o'clock in the morning down there ♪ That sort of led itself into maybe trying to make her into a novelty singer.

Exotic animals and household animals were part of her repertoire, but she only did well with "Hound Dog."

The others sort of went away.

I doubt that she made much money anywhere after "Hound Dog," and after Don Robey cut her loose.

I don't know what happened, but Don Robey wasn't a very nice man.

(mournful blues music) ♪ Hanging up my trouble ♪ ♪ Moving on down the road ♪ [Willie Mae] I went back into the Apollo Theater in February '65.

♪ Oh ♪ Our tour was riding up that part of the country.

That's when I ran into Big Maybelle was when I was battling the blues.

♪ On down ♪ Well, that tour ended that week so I drove on back down through Alabama, Georgia, seeing friends 'cause I didn't have anything else to do.

♪ Down ♪ ♪ To dump this heavy load ♪ ♪ Mm ♪ ♪ Mm, mm, mm ♪ ♪ Mm, mm ♪ ♪ Down that road ♪ (gentle bright music) [Willie Mae] On a tour with Gatemouth Brown, first part of '56, I came out here and I haven't been back.

(mournful harmonica music) When you're hungry, you try to make a fast buck to try to stop from being hungry.

(upbeat blues music) ♪ Hey ♪ Somebody told me, "Chris, you oughta hear this woman.

She's singing here in Santa Cruz at this bar, and she seems to be known for this song called 'Hound Dog.'"

She was all by herself behind the drums, and she had her harmonicas on the window sill and a glass of water.

She only had a piano player with her that was supposed to have been a guitar player too, but apparently he got too drunk to play.

But there was hardly anybody in the joint.

She was obviously really scuffling.

Big Mama Thornton took the same path as most musicians.

One night's a supper club that had the tablecloths and the candles.

Then she'd go down the street to a hole in the wall.

(lively blues music) And then she'd go out to Russell City, but she didn't have no gigs to do nothing.

Russell City was a thriving black community on the outskirts of what's now Hayward.

Once you crossed the railroad tracks, you'd smell the sheep stool and you'd know you were in the country.

They had outhouses.

The club, part of the club was wood floor, and another part of the club was dirt floor.

She called them on the Friday and said, "I'll be there tomorrow night."

"Okay, Mama!

Come on out!"

It's the economics of the situation.

She wanted to make a little grocery money.

It was what we call a survival gig.

(dramatic orchestral music) I was with my first wife on this wonderful, beautiful ship, the Andrea Doria, which was touted as unsinkable.

When we finally got into New York, Jerry and I planned to meet there.

At the dock, he ran up to me, he said, "Mike, we got a smash hit."

That's the first thing he said to me.

I said, "You're kidding!"

He said, "No.

'Hound Dog.'"

I said, "Big Mama Thornton?"

He said, "No, some white kid named Elvis Presley."

♪ You ain't nothin' but a hound dog ♪ [Commentator] Somebody came in there and said, "You know, Elvis Presley's down at the Oakland Auditorium singing 'Hound Dog' to about 20 or 30,000 kids, hollering.

Big Mama say, "That boy up there making 50,000 and I'm making $25 a night, paying my musicians $5 a fee."

Elvis Presley covering Big Mama Thornton's version of "Hound Dog" is the story of the birth of rock and roll.

That's how it happened.

White artists had much larger media attention.

The musical aspect of it was originated by black artists.

The popularity was carried forth by white artists.

She was bitter, obviously, about "Hound Dog."

(dogs barking) She is a woman who has a justified sense of anger.

She feels like she has been robbed of respect, and also credit, and also money for what she's contributed to the creation of what we call rock and roll.

She is getting in trouble.

Billy Dunn, the keyboard player, he and Big Mama, they got in a fight in Russell City, and then they went to Santa Cruz and they played one of the gigs down there, and they both went to jail for fighting.

(sirens blaring) I didn't know what to do with her, you know?

Because she didn't have a regular band, nothing.

She would sing with any band that was there at the club, you know, or at the ballroom, wherever she was performing.

Big Mama was working a place.

It was either the Savoy Club or Mini News.

You would have to step across puddles of water to get in the door.

I was having coffee at the California Hotel with this local singer, Bob Jeffries, and he said, "Man, there's this woman out in Richmond, she could really sing."

I was having coffee a couple days later, and Bob came in, "Did you see her yet?"

I said, "No, not yet."

And by that time, the doors flew open and there's this woman, about six, two, probably 275 or 280, walked through the door and he, "There!

There she is now!"

Big Mama kind of walked around and surveyed me, "Hmm!"

She didn't say anything, just, "Hmm."

I had scheduled to go over to the jazz workshop in San Francisco to catch Cannonball Adderley, and I mentioned that, "Hey man, I got the chance to sign this blues singer, Big Mama Thornton."

And before I left, he said, "Man, sign her.

Sign her now.

I just left for Europe and Lightning Hopkins is living like a king."

I signed her, we did some local gigs.

Ralph Gleason said, "Get in touch with Jimmy Lyon of the Monterey Jazz Festival."

The Monterey Jazz Festival was a very, very important event that always took place in late September.

On Saturdays, they always had an afternoon blues show.

[Willie Mae] I need a job.

If I need help, help!

All I wanna do is put something out there to let me sit down and just take my time, put some good background behind it, and let me just show the world what I got.

♪ Gonna try on my long white robe ♪ (audience applauding) ♪ Down by the riverside ♪ ♪ To study ♪ ♪ War no more ♪ It really wasn't until Jimmy Lyons booked her at the Monterey Jazz Festival that her career took off.

She was a knockout.

She broke it up.

She got so much publicity, Chris Roberts approached me with the offer to go to Europe with the American Folk Blues Festival.

(upbeat folk blues music) ♪ There's a place to go in almost any town ♪ ♪ Where all the chicks and the honkies hang around ♪ ♪ There ain't nothing fancy there for you to see ♪ ♪ But if you wanna dance, dance the place with me ♪ ♪ Dance the dance with me that moves the body and the feet ♪ ♪ I can't be late because that's where I meet my baby ♪ Horst Lippman and Fritz Rau were the promoters, and they said, "We wanna present you with America's Best."

And they did.

They did a hell of a job.

[Commentator] You gotta remember that Lippman and Rau, they were putting on the first ever anywhere blues festivals.

That was totally unheard of here.

Of course, once they saw the success of it, people started doing it.

[Historian] They considered the blues as an art.

And like all other arts, you know, they didn't make any judgment like here in America.

(gentle banjo music) [Commentator] They were absolutely treated like they treated any other artists in Europe.

They had press interviews.

They'd never had this kind of attention in their entire lives.

The first gig was someplace in Germany.

I don't think it was Berlin.

Beautiful hall, crystal chandeliers.

And I remember as we were walking in, John Lee said, he was looking around and saying, "You all sure we supposed to play here?"

(laughs) You know, six months ago you were working Mary Lou's for $25 a night, and then here you are in this beautiful concert hall.

Studio in London was booked for me by Horst Lippman because I told him I might wanna record Big Mama, had Buddy Guy and his bunch of guys from Chicago backing her up, and also Fred McDowell, the wonderful slide guitar player.

And there in the hotel rooms, they would sometimes jam with Big Mama, making up songs and singing, and Fred just playing that slide guitar.

It just sounded wonderful.

♪ Be my chauffer ♪ ♪ I want you to drive me ♪ ♪ I want you to drive me downtown ♪ (audience applauds) ♪ You ain't nothin' but a hound dog ♪ She was the headliner.

All the other people were, you know, they had names, but she, she closed the show.

♪ You can wag your tail ♪ ♪ But I ain't gonna feed you ♪ That was the first time I ever saw her get emotional, Big Mama, because after she finished, it was thunderous applause.

(crowd applauding boisterously) After we went to Europe, things really took off.

After Monterey, things took off.

(upbeat blues music) ♪ Everybody has money ♪ ♪ I am blue without it ♪ Saw her so many times, I don't remember which was the first time, but it might have been Boston or Cambridge.

There was a club there that had blues.

It was down in the basement, I remember.

It might have been some other place, maybe New York City.

And I'd sit in with her sometimes.

We were just good friends.

♪ Everybody has money ♪ ♪ And I often wonder why ♪ ♪ 'Cause I work hard every day ♪ [Charlie] But mostly I saw her in California.

I mean, there was work all up and down the West Coast, different festivals and clubs.

(elegant upbeat blues music) (audience applauds) [Willie Mae] All right, shut up all that noise.

I'm here now.

(audience laughs) I lost a tooth!

I don't know why I can sing pretty good tonight.

I lost one right in front.

Look at that.

Ain't it pretty?

But anyway, I'm here!

(audience applauds) Willie Mae's humor is really an important part of her legacy.

Every set she'd reach and pull a harmonica out of her bra.

People went crazy!

In the middle of one of the hot songs, she bumped the drummer off of his seat and she's sitting down and play drums.

You know, she put on a show.

I remember her sitting behind the drum set, and she was telling this story, something about being on a bus.

Something happened and chickens went up and down the aisle of the bus and Big Mama said she was bent over to help and, "Some gas escaped."

We played Soledad Prison.

-(audience applauding) -(audience whistling) She walked through the cell block and people were going crazy.

I was scared to death.

The auditorium was chock full.

All these buff, largely black, inmates, and a few guards, all men.

She gets up there and says, "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen."

The place fell apart.

(gentle jazz piano music) Well, I lived in Detroit, and my band, Wilson Mower Pursuit, we played all the local festivals.

They asked us to do this festival that they were trying out called the Ann Arbor Blues Festival.

B.B.

King was there, and Muddy Waters, and all the biggies.

And then this lady got up, totally unfamiliar with, it was Big Mama Thornton.

♪ What the lucky are saying ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ She had this little hat, it had a brim all the way around, matching shirt and pants.

She had this commanding presence just by standing there.

She opened her mouth and it was like somebody took out a stun gun and just shot everybody.

♪ See me go, I'll fly ♪ ♪ All over the City of the Light ♪ ♪ Let me out ♪ ♪ Or lead me on ♪ ♪ I'll go with you, the power of lights, oh ♪ Willie Mae starts in the black church.

It is in the black church where she is trained as a spiritual singer.

She understands phrasing, she understands improvisation and syncopation.

She says something like, "I don't know where I'm going, but I know where I wanna land."

♪ We'll roll around ♪ ♪ Having ♪ ♪ Having ♪ ♪ Having, O great day in the morning, God Almighty ♪ ♪ All day ♪ Yeah!

(dramatic music) ♪ Hey, oh ♪ -(audience cheers) -(audience whistles) Everybody stopped because nobody had ever heard anything like that come out of a woman.

But it felt like she was singing to everybody personally, and she had a message and she was gonna tell you whether you wanted to listen to it or not.

(mournful blues music) I think what she did for women, she let womens know that they can be independent, make their own decisions about their lives.

That mens are not right all the time.

That's what she did.

She empowered women.

The old microphones with the big metal base, she could lift one up and put it over her head.

She never seemed vulnerable.

Maybe that was the trademark.

Maybe women envied her and men feared her, and if they did, they had reason to.

(somber blues music) Evelyn Johnson at Peacock Record when she's in Houston, is trying to figure out how to market this woman.

This woman comes to Texas, she performs, she wears overall.

She's wearing cowboy hats.

She's wearing cowboy boots.

She is working as security in local clubs when she's not performing.

Big Mama wore the boots.

She wore the coats!

She wore the big old hats.

So one of the things that she does is takes her shopping, these like big and tall stores, local department stores in Houston.

And Willie Mae's like, "Yeah, no, not that.

No, I'm not gonna wear.

Sorry, boss lady, I'm not wearing that."

That was just her.

I know when I had the gown made for her for Carnegie Hall, I had to really convince her that, you know, you can't go on stage at Carnegie Hall in overalls and a plaid shirt.

I have never found any single piece of evidence where Willie Mae herself describes, you know, herself as lesbian or gay.

Willie Mae's decision to wear, quote, unquote, "Men's clothing" is because it's like she had tools.

She had drumsticks, she had a harmonica.

A blues man will have his harmonica in his suit pocket.

For someone like a Willie Mae, who is a drummer and a harmonica player, and roaming the world, a dress is limiting!

She was tough, you know?

I always liked a tough girl.

(laughs) (horn honks) (gentle blues music) We're gonna drive back to Minneapolis.

George Smith gets in the back seat and he's got his elbows up on the back of the seat.

Big Mama's driving, I'm shotgun, and she's got a bottle of old granddad on the seat.

(tires squealing) And we was nipping going down the road.

There's this long curve and they had all these barrels, construction or something going on, and she's making a turn and she hooked one of the barrels.

That barrel goes flying.

I knew George was already a little nervous about riding with Mama 'cause she'd been drinking and she was kinda weaving a little bit.

And he says, "Mama, ah, would you like me to drive?"

"Why would I want you to drive?"

"Well, I don't know.

You hit that barrel back there."

"I meant to hit that barrel.

Shut up!"

We just kept nipping and going down the road.

(laughs) (lively somber blues music) Music was a real important part of the culture of San Francisco in the '60s.

1967 was the pinnacle with Summer of Love.

All through that period, blues music was everywhere.

♪ Sitting by my window ♪ [Commentator] Janice Joplin probably appeared on the scene when Big Mama was in the Bay Area.

Janice Joplin is part of the 1960s Haight-Ashbury psychedelic rock crew.

But she is also incredibly humbled by blues artists, women singers in particular.

Big Mama was the most individualistic of them in terms of the way she projected a song, and Janice identified with it.

This is "Summertime."

(upbeat blues music) [Willie Mae] See, it just comes to me like that.

♪ Summertime ♪ Just making up a song on the stage, and you get that feeling, and got somebody behind you that groovy.

It comes out much better anyway.

Person write a song, I wind up changing that song completely.

Just like when I made this "Summertime."

I didn't do it like everybody else do it, I do it different.

(slow-beat blues music) Janice Joplin travels around The Bay to see Willie Mae perform.

And one night in a club in San Francisco, she hears Willie Mae perform "Ball and Chain," which she had written in the early 1960s when she was signed to another sort of local label.

Janice Joplin and other members of Big Brother and Company come up to Willie Mae and ask if they could perform that song.

Willie Mae is honored.

She feels seen.

She writes the lyrics on a napkin, right?

And tells them, "Yes, you can sing it."

That's the business contract.

(dramatic blues music) A black producer, record label owner, Brad Taylor called me in and said that Big Mama was about to sign away her rights and he wanted me to talk to her about it, and convince her not to do it.

♪ Somethin' came along, honey ♪ ♪ Grabbed ahold of her ♪ ♪ And it felt like a ball and chain ♪ Well, honey, just like last time, yeah!

Not me!

♪ And I say, ah, whoa, whoa, whoa ♪ ♪ Oh, honey, oh, this can't be ♪ ♪ Well, this can't be ♪ ♪ I say ♪ I say nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah!

Nah!

Nah!

A number of black women felt a kind of comradery with Janice Joplin because there was a blues that they actually heard that resembled lived experience.

♪ Oh, honey ♪ [Commentator] Janice Joplin had a very troubled early life.

Big Mama wasn't that different.

(audience cheering) Janice could see herself sort of being a rockstar version of Big Mama.

♪ Oh ♪ Brad Taylor recorded "Ball and Chain."

I suppose maybe when she first came out, he was asking me to please talk to this woman and explain to her about the publishing.

Brad Taylor never put it out, but he did get the copyright to it.

Apparently, he never paid her anything, you know?

It was really, really sad.

I kind of fell in love with Joplin a little bit when she actually went to Big Mama and asked her permission to do the song and was able to get her resids off of her version of it.

Every time Willie Mae performed that song, she offered Janice Joplin respect because she felt respected by Janice Joplin.

♪ Sitting by my window ♪ (mournful blues music) ♪ Whoa, oh, I'm a looking out at the rain ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, sitting by my window, baby ♪ ♪ Oh Lord, I was just looking out at the rain ♪ ♪ Oh, you know something struck me ♪ ♪ Clamped on ♪ ♪ Clamped onto me like a ball and chain ♪ ♪ Hey, hey ♪ ♪ Oh, baby ♪ ♪ Why do everything have to happen to me ♪ (mournful blues music continues) ♪ I said, oh, oh, baby ♪ ♪ Why do, why do, why do everything have to happen to me ♪ ♪ Because my love ♪ ♪ Is gonna last forever ♪ ♪ Oh, yeah ♪ ♪ Whoa, yeah ♪ ♪ I know it's gonna last pretty in the morning ♪ ♪ Or for eternity ♪ (upbeat blues music) (upbeat blues music continues) ♪ I wish that I was a catfish ♪ ♪ Swimming in the old ♪ ♪ I mean, the deep blue sea ♪ ♪ Have all ♪ ♪ Went to Franco ♪ ♪ That was in Germany ♪ ♪ Barcelona ♪ ♪ That was in Spain ♪ ♪ Glasgow ♪ ♪ That was in Scotland ♪ It's one of the things of that period in American history and in blues history or music history, musicians live a hard life trying to earn enough money to survive, trying to make records.

The grind of the road.

Her life mimics that of a blues man.

If she were a certain kind of woman, I'm not sure that she would be safe enough to move from couch to couch, from place to place, from boarding houses, right?

Like, that perhaps her performance of gender and how folks read it as masculine is something that also protected her.

There was three places that Big Mama Thornton was living in in LA.

You know, so you never knew where she was at because that's how she was.

You know, Big Mama Thornton would come over and visit you.

She may stay there two weeks!

But she just buy all the food, whatever anybody wants to eat.

She'd about say, "Well, I think I'll take off."

♪ Sit down on ♪ She'd get up, put her suit on, put her hat on, and leave.

(audience cheering) (audience applauding) (upbeat blues music) I would like to say thank you for welcoming me back to Eugene once more.

(audience cheering) -(upbeat harmonica music) -(upbeat blues music) (upbeat blues music continues) ♪ Early one morning ♪ ♪ Heard the rooster crow for day ♪ ♪ Early one morning ♪ ♪ Heard the rooster crow for day ♪ ♪ Looked out of my window ♪ ♪ Saw that man walk away ♪ ♪ Said, Lord, stop him ♪ ♪ I ain't getting drunk no more ♪ ♪ Said, Lord, stop him ♪ ♪ I ain't getting drunk no more ♪ ♪ Come on back, baby ♪ ♪ Come back, honey, don't go ♪ -(upbeat blues music continues) -(upbeat harmonica music) (upbeat blues music continues) (upbeat blues music continues) (audience cheering) (upbeat blues music continues) ♪ Saw my baby leave ♪ ♪ But I had him by the hand ♪ ♪ Saw my baby leave ♪ ♪ But I had him by the hand ♪ ♪ And could hear to tell him ♪ ♪ I called him a no good man ♪ (somber upbeat harmonica music) (audience clapping rhythmically) (audience cheering) (audience whistling) She was told early on in the 1970s that she needed to be conscious and careful of what she ate and what she consumed in terms of alcohol.

(mournful harmonica music) It's kind of a Southern tradition, drinking.

A lot of people that had drinking problems and I was one of them.

(laughs) If you're an entertainer, you're always getting free drinks pushed on you, it takes the edges off.

The reason why people drank 'cause they was depressed, they was hurt, you know?

I mean, how?

Can you imagine $50,000 versus $25?

See, Mama had been through a whole bunch of problems.

You know, she went through that Johnny Ace thing, you know, when she saw a man kill his self in the dressing room.

She was going down slow.

[Announcer] Ladies and gentlemen, Ms. Willie Mae Thornton!

I used to call her Big Mama, but I can't do that no more.

Ms. Willie Mae Thornton!

I didn't follow her deterioration, but I did see her sporadically and saw her decline.

Every time I ran into her, she'd ask me, do I have $20 I could loan her?

(laughs) I often didn't!

And Mary Wells told me, says, "You know what?

Big Mama Thornton is in Los Angeles, and she's not doing all that well, you know?"

[Commentator] Guess she had cancer and continued to perform as long as she could.

She says, "You know what?"

Said, "Why don't you take her out and book her?"

So we went to Canada to a place called the Commodore Ballroom.

[Willie Mae] You know, I just like to sing my soul.

I can't sing nobody else's, so I give it to you this way.

So we did that whole Portland, Seattle, Washington, Vancouver, Canada, until we came back.

I told my brother, I said, "Man!"

I said, "Everywhere we go with this woman, she's selling out."

♪ Early one morning ♪ Five, 600 seaters.

And she said, "I told you people love me."

(mournful blues music) In 1979, the year I booked Big Mama Thornton on the San Francisco Blues Festival, she was living in Los Angeles, phoned her up, and we made an arrangement for her to come up to perform.

On the day of her performance, she came in with her sister, Mattie Fields, but she was very fragile.

She had to be helped onto the stage.

And I think that that moment of her walking across the stage being helped, the audience was really in kind of shock.

They didn't know what to expect.

Big Mama had changed so much.

She sat in front of the microphone and she said: [Willie Mae] Hello, folks!

(audience cheers) From the first note and the first lyric, she was in command.

Her voice was there.

Everything about Big Mama was intact.

It was a great performance.

(upbeat blues music) (audience cheering) ♪ Early one morning, I heard a rooster crow for day ♪ [Audience Members] Yeah!

We all have blues at one time or another.

Life, bad times!

Blue are always around.

They're always gonna be there.

They've always been around.

♪ Saw that man of mine walk away ♪ ♪ I cried, Lord, stop him ♪ ♪ I ain't getting drunk no more ♪ She ended up doing about a seven minute version of, "Ball and Chain," which was her signature tune.

♪ Sitting by my window ♪ [Commentator] And that really brought the house down.

It was a stunning performance, but it was haunting because one wasn't really sure what the future held for Big Mama Thornton.

(somber blue music) I met Big Mama at a club called Akiki in South Central where I played with a hot show band.

It was bumping.

Everybody came through, all the stars, just to reassure themselves.

People like Big Joe Turner, Lowell Fulson, Percy Mayfield.

Everybody would get a little nip.

Big Mama when she walked in, she just came straight to the stage.

♪ It's all right ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ It wasn't like they was really putting on a show.

It would be Big Mama Thornton and she knew that.

"I'm Big Mama Thornton and hey, I'm singing, I'm singing."

(relaxing blues music) ♪ Oh, Lord ♪ ♪ You hide your eyes ♪ [Starr] We got this gig with Etta James.

We got a club called The Golden Bear in Huntington Beach, California.

Everybody played that club, from Janice Joplin to Jimmy Hendrix.

I went to pick up Big Mama at a house full of people.

Big Mama came out, got in the car, we headed to Huntington Beach.

♪ It's all ♪ [Starr] What I remember most about Big Mama in that conversation was she was really thankful and grateful for her life.

♪ Lift me up ♪ All all she had gone through, the good and the bad.

She turned spiritual.

And when we got to Golden Bear, Etta James wanted Big Mama to headline.

Big Mama was thrilled.

Came out really with an incredible show.

So Big Mama was still Big Mama Thornton.

(siren blaring) (romantic blues music) ♪ Whoa, oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ One day, I'm gonna leave you ♪ A strange thing happened, man.

We're getting ready to come back.

She says, "You know what?

I'm gonna ride back with the band."

She had never said that before.

You know, she always flew and stuff like that.

So I said, "Man, Mama gonna ride back with the band."

She said, "Yeah."

So she said, "I wanna ride back with the band."

[Willie Mae] I didn't even get a box or nothing!

[Musician] Shove that whole thing in there!

[Willie Mae] Well, he refused to play with me when he first come out and got famous.

They wanted a big thing for Big Mama Thornton and everything, and he refused!

And she rode back to Oakland.

And she said, "Get me a hotel room."

And she always lived in the California Hotel on San Pablo.

So I said, "Mama, you wanna stay here for a while?"

She said, "Yeah, I'm gonna kick and hang out with you guys.

I don't feel too good."

She must have felt that because she died right after that.

(gentle blues music) ♪ Well, early one morning ♪ ♪ I know you are gonna rise up ♪ [Shaun] She wasn't taken care of enough.

I was stunned that she wasn't more cherished than she was.

Buried in a mass grave, someone like her that had literally a gift from God.

♪ Up in the sky, baby ♪ ♪ I thought killed that bird this morning ♪ ♪ I know there is nothing going to harm you ♪ ♪ Your mommy and your daddy ♪ ♪ They is standing ♪ ♪ On somewhere over there ♪ ♪ Whoa, yeah ♪ ♪ God is standing somewhere by ♪ ♪ Oh, they both is standing over you ♪ ♪ Child, they is standing over you somewhere ♪ ♪ No, no, you don't have to worry ♪ ♪ No, no, you don't have to cry no more ♪ ♪ Because ♪ ♪ They are standing ♪ ♪ By you ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ All the time, oh ♪ (audience cheering boisterously) [Announcer] Here she is!

Big Mama Thornton!

(upbeat blues music) Big Mama Thornton, I'm not sure if it was her final performance, appeared with a blues revue put together by a British network, Channel Four.

We were about 12 rows back.

Big Mama came out smoking a cigarette and stared at the audience for three to five minutes just to work the audience up, and say, "How bad do you want me to do something?"

You know?

"You're gonna watch me smoke this cigarette.

Maybe if you're lucky, I'll sing."

(upbeat blues music continues) ♪ Sitting by my window ♪ ♪ Whoa, oh, looking out at the rain ♪ She was a lot thinner.

Didn't look as imposing as I would've expected her to be.

♪ Ball and chain ♪ But it didn't limit her ability to put across her songs, her presence.

That's what it was all about with Big Mama was she had a presence that couldn't be overlooked, even if you tried.

♪ I know my love gonna last forever ♪ ♪ Gonna last ♪ ♪ I know it's gonna last ♪ (audience cheers) ♪ For ♪ ♪ Eternity ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ Lord have mercy ♪ ♪ For ♪ ♪ For ♪ ♪ Eternity ♪ -(audience cheering) -(upbeat blues music) ♪ Eternity, for eternity ♪ (audience cheering boisterously) [Lynnee] Willie Mae Thornton had a hand in shaping American music, Black American music, for 40 years without compromising her authenticity.

(audience cheering boisterously) (lively harmonica music) (lively blues music) (audience clapping rhythmically) (lively blues music continues) ♪ Early one morning ♪ ♪ I heard a rooster crow for day ♪ ♪ It was early one morning ♪ ♪ Heard that rooster for day ♪ ♪ I looked out of my window ♪ ♪ Saw my baby walk away ♪ ♪ I said, Lord, stop him ♪ ♪ I ain't getting drunk no more ♪ ♪ Lord, stop him ♪ ♪ I ain't getting drunk no more ♪ ♪ Said, come on back, baby ♪ ♪ Come back, honey, please don't you go ♪ (lively blues music continues) (lively blues music continues) ♪ And he heard me calling ♪ ♪ He looked back and waved his hand ♪ ♪ Heard me calling ♪ ♪ He looked back and waved it ♪ ♪ I said, you better get another women ♪ ♪ Because Big Mama got another man ♪ (lively blues music continues) (lively blues music continues) (gentle upbeat blues music) (mournful blues music) -(dramatic blues music) -(audience cheering) (audience applauding) [Willie Mae] Thank you!