AMNA NAWAZ: A deal on the debt ceiling and the 2024 presidential race ramps up.

At the end of this busy week in politics, we turn to the analysis of Capehart and Abernathy.

That's Jonathan Capehart, associate editor for The Washington Post, and Gary Abernathy, also a Washington Post contributor.

And welcome to you both.

Jonathan, we have avoided economic disaster with this debt ceiling deal.

People on both sides of the deal do seem very unhappy in some way, which, as the saying goes, means they probably did something right.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: It's a great deal.

AMNA NAWAZ: But, from the Democratic point of view, from the president's point of view, was this a good deal for the president?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: This was a good deal for the president, in that the -- as I have been calling it, the eat, pray, love bill that the House passed as part of their debt ceiling-raising bill had lots of drastic cuts to social programs and a lot of the president's priorities.

This deal does away with a lot of those things.

They had to make some concessions, work requirements and some other things.

But when you look at the details of the bill, particularly the one where it says that Congress has to go through the appropriations process... AMNA NAWAZ: Right.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: ... pass the 12 appropriations bills, and if you guys don't do it by the end of the fiscal year, well, there will be a continuing resolution and it will be set at F.Y.

22 or F.Y.

23 levels, that is a huge victory for a Democratic president dealing with a Republican House.

AMNA NAWAZ: Gary, what about from your perspective?

How do you see this?

Was this a good deal for the Republicans to make?

GARY ABERNATHY, The Washington Post: Yes, well, I agree it was a good deal for President Biden.

It was also a good deal for Kevin McCarthy, but particularly President Biden.

Why?

Not because necessarily of the details of the bill, but because a deal was made, a truly bipartisan deal, Amna and Jonathan.

Think about that.

I mean, a lot of times, we call things bipartisan because they pick off one or two or three votes of the other party, usually Republicans, and people say, that was a bipartisan vote.

This was, by any definition, a bipartisan vote in the House and the Senate across the board.

And that's something that President Biden can and will, I think, take a lot of credit for, rightfully so.

It's been a long time.

I'm old enough to remember when these kind of things happened in Congress more regularly.

It wasn't that -- I was a very small child.

(LAUGHTER) (CROSSTALK) GARY ABERNATHY: But it was kind of nice to see it again.

And for Kevin McCarthy, he delivered not just a majority of the majority of Republicans.

He delivered a supermajority of Republicans in the House.

So, a pretty good day, I think, for both McCarthy and Biden.

AMNA NAWAZ: As you both know, there were a lot of questions about how Speaker McCarthy would be able to handle the far right members of his conference in particular.

When you heard him talking to reporters after the bill passed the House, it kind of told you everything you needed to know about how he felt in the moment.

Take a listen to that moment.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): This is fabulous.

This is one of the best nights I have ever been here.

I thought it would be hard.

I thought it'd be almost impossible just to get to 218.

Now I found there's a whole new day here.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan, is that a man newly empowered, no longer worried about being removed from his speakership?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I think so.

And this is how I know Speaker McCarthy is extremely happy.

I don't recognize that voice.

That voice is about three or four octaves higher than I have ever heard it.

And you know what?

Let me give him his due.

Let me give him his props.

The guy got the gavel after 15 ballots.

Everyone underestimated him.

Everyone said that he was going to be led around by the far right folks in the House Freedom Caucus.

And, to Gary's point, the fact that the bill passed the House with a supermajority of Republicans, but over 300 votes, with more Democrats voting for it than anticipated, than expected, that is a big win for bipartisanship.

And I do think it is a political win for the speaker that should put to rest this idea that this is a guy who is literally a vote away from being ousted from power.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Gary, do you agree with that?

I mean, he still has the same narrow majority.

The same members who were unhappy with the deal earlier remain unhappy with it.

What do you make of this?

GARY ABERNATHY: I got one name for you, Jim Jordan.

He voted for this bill.

So when he gets Jim Jordan to vote for this bill, the founder of the Freedom Caucus, I believe, it's hard for other Freedom Caucus members, as upset as some of them were, to really mount much of an offensive against Kevin McCarthy.

So, I agree.

I think he strengthened himself, and I just don't think Republicans have a stomach right now for the turmoil they went through back in January, where they elected him to begin with.

I think it's a big day for Kevin McCarthy going forward.

AMNA NAWAZ: So what does this say about the process more broadly when you take a step back?

I mean, that is the big question now, right?

Coming out of 2011, there was a lot of conversation about lessons learned.

The Republican takeaway was, this is how we have leverage.

This is how we do this every time.

Did negotiating with Republicans now further empower them in opposition to continue to do this every time?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: They might think so, but you can't continue to hold the American economy and the global economy hostage to try to get through your fiscal priorities that you can't get through in the normal appropriations process.

AMNA NAWAZ: That came very close this time, though, right?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: They came very close, but they didn't succeed.

And I think, going forward, I think the president should investigate whether he can use the 14th Amendment, put a court -- put - - like, do a filing.

Let's test the question.

I also think, after the next election, if there is a Democratic House and the president wins reelection and the Senate remains in the hands of Democrats, there should be a conversation had, a debate had about whether the debt ceiling should be done away with altogether.

And, quite honestly, I think it should.

We should do away with the hostage-taking.

AMNA NAWAZ: Gary, should we get rid of the debt ceiling?

GARY ABERNATHY: Yes, I think it's an interesting question, really, I mean, because it's such an exercise -- it's such an exercise in brinksmanship every time we have it.

But let's be clear.

Nothing in politics is beyond dealmaking over it, OK?

Or some people say -- want to say hostage-taking.

That happens on both sides.

Every bill coming up is an opportunity to deal, to horse-trade and so on.

And Republicans were very smart, I'm going to say McCarthy was very smart, in knowing how far to go.

You could push it too far.

And, listen, if this had fallen apart, who would have gotten blamed for this not happening?

As always, it would have been the Republicans blamed for this falling apart and for the debt ceiling not being lifted and for all these things that would have happened as a result of that.

But, listen, every opportunity -- everything in politics is an opportunity to make a deal.

And this was good.

It's just Republicans knew how far they could go.

And Joe Biden, a dealmaker from the Senate, was never adverse from the beginning from saying, you know what?

We are going to have to make a deal.

He had members of his party saying, don't deal with them at all.

Just do a clean bill and stick to that.

And he said, nah.

He likes the art of making deals.

That's OK. AMNA NAWAZ: Let's turn now to 2024, because we do expect more presidential campaign announcements on the Republican side next week, including former Vice President Mike Pence, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum.

They would join this field of declared candidates so far that includes Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Asa Hutchinson, Vivek Ramaswamy, Tim Scott, and Donald Trump.

So, Jonathan, take a look at that and entire field right now.

How do these new candidates coming in set themselves apart in this field?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: OK, so, Chris Christie, easy.

I know what lane he's in.

AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: He is that car in the motorcade that is the demolition car.

So, motorcades have a car that is on the lookout for anything that's trying to disrupt, say, a presidential motorcade.

That's the car that weaves out and heads for that destructive car.

That is Chris Christie.

Chris Christie will be in the campaign and on that debate stage taking whacks at Donald Trump, as someone who knows Donald Trump well, who ran against him, worked with him, did debate prep with him before.

So he knows him really well.

And it's a perfect way for him to take him down.

Former Vice President Mike Pence, I don't know what his lane is.

He is running for the Republican nomination in a party that's been remade in the image of the man who incited insurrectionists to try to overturn a free and fair election who ran through the Capitol screaming, "Hang Mike Pence."

I don't know where he thinks his votes are going to come from that would allow him to surmount and to beat Donald Trump for the Republican nomination.

AMNA NAWAZ: Gary, is there a lane for Mike Pence in this Republican Party, in a primary, in particular?

GARY ABERNATHY: Yes.

No, I agree that there's probably not.

But I also disagree with Jonathan.

I don't think there's a lane for Chris Christie either.

This week, we were asked at The Post what they called the right-leaning columnists to look at this Republican field.

As the editor pointed out, Chris Suellentrop, a lot of readers don't think they're right-thinking, but they're right-leaning columnists.

And most of us agreed.

I think, that the MAGA lane is the only lane.

It's just a matter of, can anyone other than Trump be the guy standing at the end of that?

And I do think it comes down right now -- it will come down to a Trump versus DeSantis two-person race.

Can Ron DeSantis make the case that, yes, he's MAGA enough to keep the base happy, to build that following, and yet move them away from Donald Trump, and to say, because -- because DeSantis is perhaps -- or definitely more electable in November?

He's got to make the case, look, you may love Donald Trump, but he can't win in November.

And I think that's what this race and this whole primary is going to come down to that question.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan, we can't say this enough.

There's a long way to go.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: A long time.

AMNA NAWAZ: A long -- many, many months to go.

But Gary is right, and we have all seen this in the polls.

Trump and DeSantis remain the front-runners for now in the polls.

How are the Democrats looking at this?

And, in particular, how is the campaign of President Biden looking at this?

We have seen some of the presidential matchups so far.

That's a recent poll from late May, how President Biden would fare against former President Trump there, and also there was one showing him against Ron DeSantis as well.

We should note there the margin of error is about 2.3 percent.

So those are tight races.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: They're tight.

AMNA NAWAZ: How are Democrats looking at that?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, look, I think Democrats are still champing at the bit to run against Donald Trump again.

I think the president is clear-eyed and focused that, no matter who his Republican challenger is going to be, probably former President Donald Trump, the mission is to remind people about who we are as Americans and what we stand for as Americans, no matter we're Republican or Democrat, but we stand for the rule of law.

We stand for treating each other with respect and kindness and dignity and respect the freedom and liberty of all of us.

And I think, as long as he stays on that message, no matter who he's running against, he stands a better chance of being reelected.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan Capehart and Gary Abernathy, thank you both for joining us today.

Always good to see you.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Amna.

GARY ABERNATHY: Thank you.