>> WELL, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CLIMATE AND CIVIL RIGHTS ROLLBACKS ARE ONLY MAKING LIFE HARDER FOR ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVISTS.

LIKE OUR NEXT GUEST, WHO SPENT YEARS LEADING THE CHARGE FOR A LANDMARK SETTLEMENT TO ADDRESS THE SEWAGE CRISIS CRIPPLING RURAL COMMUNITIES IN ALABAMA.

ONLY FOR THE AGREEMENT TO BE KILLED LAST MONTH.

BUT CATHERINE COLEMAN FLOWERS ISN'T GIVING UP.

SHE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS HER NEW BOOK, HOLY GROUND, AND THE FIGHT FOR ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE IN AMERICA.

>> THANKS.

CATHERINE COLEMAN FLOWERS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> CAN I JUST START WITH LEARNING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOU?

YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST, CLIMATE ACTIVIST.

YOU'VE BEEN A HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER.

YOU WERE IN THE AIR FORCE AT ONE POINT.

HOW, HOW WOULD YOU SAY YOU GOT STARTED AS A, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T EVEN WANT TO SAY AN ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST.

YOU ACTUALLY STARTED WHEN YOU WENT HOME TO ALABAMA, AND YOU WERE WORKING ON SANITATION, RIGHT?

>> YES, BUT MY, I THINK MY DEVELOPMENT IS ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST LONG BEFORE THEN, YOU KNOW?

IT WAS GROWING UP IN MILES COUNTY, ALABAMA.

GROWING UP AS A COUNTRY GIRL.

BYE, I THINK THAT ANYONE THAT GREW UP IN A RURAL COMMUNITY IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST.

YOU'RE AN ENVIRONMENTALIST.

YOU HAD TO LEARN HOW TO LIVE WITH THE LAND.

YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO DEAL WITH THE CHANGING WEATHER, ALL OF THOSE THINGS, WHAT THE GROWING SEASON IS, ALL OF THAT.

I JUST REMEMBER IN MY BOOK WASTE, MY EARLIER BOOK, I TALKED ABOUT THAT, AND I TALKED ABOUT THE ALMANAC THAT PEOPLE USE TO KIND OF PREDICT SOMETHING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE GROWING SEASON, WHEN THE PLANT SEEDS AND ALL OF THAT.

AND I GREW UP WALKING AMONG CORNFIELDS, AND EVEN NOW, I STILL PAY ATTENTION TO WHETHER OR NOT I'M IN AN AREA WHERE I SEE A LOT OF VEGETATION, AND I DON'T SEE BUGS, AND I DON'T BUTTERFLIES.

THAT, I QUESTION THAT, YOU KNOW?

WHY ARE THERE BIRDS HERE?

IN PLACES WHERE THERE ARE LOTS OF TREES.

SO THAT WAS MY COMING-OF-AGE, AND I THINK THAT THE ENVIRONMENTAL, THE ACTIVISM PART ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL SIDE HAPPENED LATER AFTER I BECAME A TEACHER, MOVED BACK TO LOWNDES COUNTY AND THE MONTGOMERY AREA, AND FOUND OUT THAT THERE'S A CONNECTION BETWEEN ALL OF THIS.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER REASONS THAT YOU'VE COME TO PUBLIC ATTENTION IS YOU HAVE BEEN CALLING ATTENTION TO IS THE FACT THAT WHERE THERE ARE KIND OF MUNICIPAL SYSTEMS, OFTEN THEY ARE PLACED IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

AND THAT THERE ARE HEALTH EFFECTS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEARBY THAT SOMETIMES ARE NOT ACCOUNTED FOR.

OR THEY'RE NOT MAINTAINED AS WELL AS THEY COULD AND SHOULD BE, AND THEN THERE ARE HEALTH EFFECTS.

OR WHEN YOU HAVE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS, AND THE SYSTEMS ARE OVERWHELMED, GUESS WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST AFFECTED?

>> LET'S LOOK AT JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI.

WHEN THE WATER PRESSURE, AND I WROTE ABOUT THIS IN MY NEW BOOK, HOLY GROUND.

I HAPPENED TO GO TO JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI JUST PRIOR TO GOING TO THE CONFERENCE OF PARTIES ON CLIMATE CHANGE IN DUBAI.

AND I WAS ABLE TO MAKE A COMPARISON BETWEEN JACKSON, A PLACE WHERE THE MAYOR SAID IS THAT WAY BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF INVESTMENT, OR DISINVESTMENT, AND DUBAI, WHICH IS A, WHICH IS A, A COUNTRY, OR A CITY IN A COUNTRY THAT IS, THAT IS , WATER IS, IS SCARCE, YOU KNOW?

AND, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, BECAUSE OF THE INVESTMENT IN DUBAI, IT'S A WORLD-CLASS CITY.

WHEREAS YOU GO TO JACKSON WHEN THEY HAD THE HOMECOMING WITH DEION SANDERS WAS THE WAS THE COACH OF THE TEAM THERE AT JACKSON STATE, A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME TO HOMECOMING, BECAUSE THE TEAM WAS WINNING.

BUT THE MAYOR WANTED THE RESIDENCE OF THE PRESSURE OF, THE WATER PRESSURE WOULD GO DOWN.

WHEN THE WATER PRESSURE GOES DOWN, THEY CAN'T FLUSH THEIR TOILETS.

PEOPLE DON'T SEE THE CONNECTION THERE.

AND, AND WE ARE TRYING TO SHOW THAT CONNECTION.

AND THE CONNECTION IS, THIS IS A CAPITAL CITY OF THE SOUTHERN STATE THAT IS VERY RED.

HOWEVER, BUT IN THE CAPITAL, THE DISINVESTMENT IS BEING SHOWN UP THROUGH THE, THE LACK OF INVESTMENT IN INFRASTRUCTURE, AND CERTAINLY THE PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF THE WATER ISSUES THAT HAVE COME ABOUT BECAUSE OF THAT LACK OF INVESTMENT.

>> YOU'RE FROM ALABAMA, YOU'RE FROM LOWNDES COUNTY.

HAD SOME ADVENTURES.

WENT HOME TO, YOU KNOW, DO YOUR THING.

YOU START WORKING ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND YOU REALIZE, WAIT A MINUTE, BUSINESSES ARE GOING TO COME HERE BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE IS IN THERE.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME WHERE THERE ISN'T, LIKE, CONSISTENT SEWAGE SYSTEMS AND, YOU KNOW, WATER SYSTEMS.

BUT WHEN DID YOU START TO THINK TO YOURSELF, THIS ISN'T JUST A MATTER OF THIS PARTICULAR PLACE AND THIS PARTICULAR TIME, BUT THIS IS KIND OF A BIGGER ISSUE?

>> WHEN OTHER PEOPLE STARTED REACHING OUT TO US AND TELLING US THEY WERE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM.

THAT'S WHEN WE REALIZED IT WAS A BIGGER ISSUE.

AND WE ALSO DID A HOUSE TO HOUSE SURVEY LOCALLY WHERE WE WENT FROM HOUSE, HOUSE TO HOUSE IN LOWNDES COUNTY, AND WHERE WE THOUGHT PEOPLE WOULD BE RESISTANT, THEY WERE NOT RESISTANT.

THEY STARTED TELLING US, FOR ONE EXAMPLE, THERE'S ONE OF OUR SURVEYORS.

SHE WAS AFRAID TO GO INTO THIS COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT WAS PREDOMINANTLY WHITE, AND SHE WAS AFRAID THAT IF YOU WENT THERE, SHE WOULD NOT BE WELL RECEIVED, SO WHEN SHE WENT THERE, SHE WENT WITH A SHERIFF DEPUTY.

WHEN SHE WENT TO THIS PERSON'S HOUSE AND SHE STARTED TAKING THE SURVEY, HE STARTED CALLING ALL OF HIS NEIGHBORS, BECAUSE THEY WERE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS, AND STAYING, YOU NEED TO TALK TO HER.

SO IT IS A PROBLEM, ALTHOUGH RECENTLY IT'S BEEN CHARACTERIZED AS A DDI ISSUE.

IT'S NOT A DDI ISSUE.

WHITE PEOPLE IN LOWNDES COUNTY HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN ALL 67 COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.

SO WE'RE HEARING FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND INDEED AROUND THE WORLD, WHERE PEOPLE ARE HAVING THESE SAME ISSUES, AND THAT'S HOW WE REALIZE THAT THIS WAS A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM THAN JUST WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO POOR PEOPLE IN LOWNDES COUNTY.

THEY WERE THE FIRST ONES TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT IT, BUT THEY WERE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE DEALING WITH THE ISSUE.

>> AND ONE OF THE POINTS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN MAKING IN RECENT YEARS IS THAT WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, WITH EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS, PEOPLE WHO'VE NEVER HAD TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES BEFORE ARE DEALING WITH THEM NOW.

WHY IS THAT?

>> BECAUSE THE WATER TABLES ARE RISING.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY.

AND WHEN THEY GET ALL OF THIS RAIN AT ONE TIME, BECAUSE NOW WE'RE HAVING, LIKE, BIG BRAIN, AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE UNDER A EXTREME WEATHER WARNING IN MY AREA.

AND WITH THAT, WILL COME RAIN.

PEOPLE THAT ARE ON SEPTIC SYSTEMS, THAT'S WHEN THEY EXPECT TO HAVE PROBLEMS.

BECAUSE WHEN ALL THIS RAIN COMES DOWN AND THE GROUND GETS SATURATED, THAT'S GOING TO FORCE THEM OF THE GRAVITY FORCES THAT FLOWING BACK INTO THE HOME.

I HAVE EVEN HEARD FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEW HOMES THAT ARE SAYING THE SAME THING.

THE ONE COMMON DENOMINATOR THAT I HEAR A LOT SAID WHEN A LOT OF RAIN COMES DOWN, THEY HAVE A PROBLEM.

THEY WERE ALSO SEEING IN PLACES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE EXPERIENCED SEA LEVEL RISE, LIKE IN FLORIDA.

IT, I WENT TO A CONFERENCE IN FLORIDA, I THOUGHT I WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE TALKING ABOUT FILLING SEPTIC SYSTEMS, AND EVERYBODY THAT SPOKE FOR ME WAS TALKING ABOUT IT AS WELL.

THE MIAMI-DADE COUNTY AREA, THEY BUILT LOTS OF COMMUNITY ON SEPTIC SYSTEMS, AND THEY ARE FILLING IT AS WELL BECAUSE OF SEA LEVEL RISE.

I THINK ANOTHER ISSUE THAT PEOPLE DON'T TALK ABOUT IS SALTWATER INTRUSION.

WHERE SALTWATER IS COMING INTO AREAS IN LOWNDES COUNTY, YOU HAVE TO DIG BELOW 1000 FEET IN SOME AREAS TO GET BELOW SALTWATER.

BUT THAT'S NOT FACTORED INTO THE DESIGN.

SO THE BIG PROBLEM, I BELIEVE, IS THE DESIGN.

THE DESIGNS ARE NOT WORKING PROPERLY.

PEOPLE DESIGNED THEM YEARS AGO.

THEY DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE DESIGN.

THEY MAKE MONEY OFF OF THEM, BECAUSE ONCE THEY KILL YOU, THEY'LL GO ON PAYMENT OF MONEY TO REPLACE IT WITH ANOTHER DESIGN THAT'S GOING ALSO FAIL, AND WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

>> IT DOES SEEM AS THOUGH YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU WHO'VE BEEN WORKING WITH YOU HAD BEEN MAKING PROGRESS.

I MEAN, YOU'VE BEEN WORKING FOR YEARS TO EXPOSE THE FACT, AND TO WORK ON THE FACT THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF RURAL COMMUNITIES IN ALABAMA WHO STILL LIVE WITH -- IN THEIR YARDS BECAUSE OF INADEQUATE, YOU KNOW, FACILITIES, AND THAT LED TO THIS HISTORIC FEDERAL SETTLEMENT TO FIX THOSE CONDITIONS.

NOW THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAVE THE ROUGHLY TERMINATED THE AGREEMENT.

THE ADMINISTRATION, FOR EXAMPLE, SAID THAT THE ALABAMA WASTEWATER SETTLEMENT WAS AN ILLEGAL DEI POLICY.

WHAT, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

LIKE, HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> I THINK THAT IT WAS MISCHARACTERIZED, AND I ALSO HAVE EXTENDED AN INVITATION TO PRESIDENT TRUMP HIMSELF TO COME AND SEE IT FOR HIMSELF.

AND I CAN TAKE HIM TO THE HOMES OF BLACK AND WHITE FAMILIES THAT HAVE RAW SEWAGE ON THE GROUND.

AND I CHALLENGE THEM TO FIX IT.

THAT'S MY RESPONSE TO IT.

AND I THINK THAT THE WAY WE DEAL WITH THIS IS TO KEEP RAISING THESE ISSUES AND LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT IT EXISTS, AND WHO IS IMPACTED BY IT, AND HIS IMPACT, AND PEOPLE ARE BEING IMPACTED AROUND THE COUNTRY.

I, EVERYWHERE I GO, PEOPLE COME AND TALK TO ME, WHETHER I'M IN A RED AREA OR BLUE AREA.

USUALLY I'M IN RED AREAS.

THEY COME AND TELL ME ABOUT THE SITUATIONS THAT THEY'RE LIVING IN.

THAT THEY'RE LIVING IN THE SAME, WITH THE SAME ISSUE.

I, IN THE BOOK, I WRITE ABOUT SENATOR TURBERVILLE, AND I HAD TO TESTIFY BEFORE A, A COMMITTEE THAT THE SENATE HAD, SENATOR BOOKERS PEOPLE INVITED ME TO TESTIFY ABOUT THE WASTEWATER PROBLEM, AND THEY WERE LOOKING AT THE FARM BILL AND EXTENDING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE FARM BILL TO USE , TO PUT INTO RURAL COMMUNITIES TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

AND WHAT WAS INTERESTING IS THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT SHOWED UP AT THE HEARING WERE MEMBERS OF THE GOP.

THEY WERE GOP SENATORS.

BECAUSE THEIR AREAS ARE THE ONES IMPACTED BY THIS.

AND THE PERSON WHO WAS LEADING THAT PARTICULAR COMMITTEE ON THE SENATE SIDE, ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WAS SENATOR TURBERVILLE.

AND HE AND SENATOR BOOKER ACTUALLY WORKED TOGETHER ON TRYING TO INCREASE THOSE FIRMS.

BUT PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS BECAUSE OF THE, THE DIVISIONS, THERE WERE PEOPLE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE THAT REFUSED TO SUPPORT IT BECAUSE OF TURBERVILLE.

I THINK, WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE KINDS OF ISSUES, IT SHOULDN'T BE PARTISAN.

THESE ARE PEOPLE ISSUES.

WE SHOULDN'T THROW THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE SUFFERING UNDER THE BUS BECAUSE WE DON'T LIKE THE PERSON WHO'S NAME'S ON THE BILL, IF BILL'S A GOOD BILL AND IT GIVES THEM WHAT THEY NEED, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO GET OUT OF THOSE SITUATIONS.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE TRIED TO DO AS WELL.

WHEN I FIRST STARTED DOING THIS WORK, WHEN I WENT INTO LOWNDES COUNTY, MY HOME COUNTY, DOING THIS WORK IN 2002, THE PERSON THAT WENT WITH ME WAS BOB, ROBERT WAS IN.

ROBERT WAS IN IS A CONSERVATIVE BLACK REPUBLICAN.

BUT HE CARED ABOUT HIS COMMUNITY, AND HE STILL CARES ABOUT HIS COMMUNITY.

AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY VOTE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.

THEY DON'T NEED TO HAVE RAW SEWAGE ON THE, ON THE GROUND.

THEY ARE AMERICANS, AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS SUCH NO MATTER WHO'S IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> MAKES ME WONDER WHETHER, IN HINDSIGHT, THOUGH, DO YOU THINK IT IS A MISTAKE, OR WAS A MISTAKE TO KIND OF MAKE THE SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES WHEN THAT SEEMS TO HAVE OPENED THE DOOR FOR PEOPLE TO DISMISS THEM NOW THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF THE COUNTRY HAS CHANGED?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT IT WAS A MISTAKE.

I THINK IT BROUGHT IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THIS NATION.

I THINK THAT, GOING FORWARD, HOWEVER, I THINK WE SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE THAT IMPACTS ONLY ONE RACE OR ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE, THAT IMPACTS EVERYONE.

AND HOW IT IMPACTS EVERYONE.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT WE GET, THAT WE EDUCATE PEOPLE SO THEY CAN UNDERSTAND, WHICH IS THE REASON WHY I OFFERED THE INVITATION FOR THE PRESIDENT AND HIS STAFF TO COME AND SEE IT FOR THEMSELVES, BECAUSE ONCE YOU SEE THAT YOU CAN'T UN-SEE IT.

BECAUSE IT MAKES AMERICA, I KEEP SEEING ALL THE SIGNS ABOUT HOW AMERICA IS BACK.

WE NEVER DEALT WITH THIS PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

WE NEED TO ADDRESS IT.

>> WELL, TO THAT END, THOUGH, THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN AGGRESSIVELY ROLLING BACK A NUMBER OF POLICIES OF THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, HE'S EXITED THE PARIS CLIMATE AGREEMENT AGAIN, HE IS SLASHED CLEAN ENERGY SUBSIDIES, HE'S, YOU KNOW, AND POWERED THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO BLOCK STATE CLIMATE LAWS.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS YOU KEEP POINTING OUT, AND YOU POINT OUT IN THE BOOK, IS THAT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFECTED BY THIS ARE NOT JUST BLACK PEOPLE OR BROWN PEOPLE OR POOR PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO HAVE PREVIOUSLY NOT BEEN AFFECTED, PEOPLE FROM ALL DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS ARE AFFECTED BY THIS, INCLUDING FARMERS, WHO, AS A GROUP, TENDED TO HAVE BEEN PARTICULARLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE SAID MINISTRATION.

ONE JUST SORT OF WONDERING, LIKE, WHY IT IS THAT THAT, THAT MESSAGE, THAT THIS AFFECTS EVERYBODY, DOESN'T SEEM TO BE GETTING THROUGH, AT LEAST NOT AT THE MOMENT.

>> I THINK THAT IS NOT GETTING THROUGH BECAUSE THE PEOPLE, AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM THAT I FOUND IN ALL THE YEARS I'VE BEEN DOING THIS WORK.

OFTENTIMES THE PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING THE POLICY HAVEN'T BEEN TO THESE COMMUNITIES.

THEY HAVEN'T LIVED IN THESE COMMUNITIES.

THEY DON'T TALK TO THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

THEY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON, AND THEY HAVE A TOP-DOWN APPROACH.

AND THE TOP-DOWN APPROACH DOES NOT WORK.

IT DOESN'T WORK NO MATTER WHO'S IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.

AND I THINK THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GOING TO GET THE REAL SOLUTIONS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT, FIRST OF ALL, WE LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE GROUND.

IT SHOULD BE POLICY --YOU ARE TRYING TO FINALLY GET THEIR DAY, BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN BUILDING, THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET THIS POLICY ENACTED FOR 20 YEARS, AND IT'S NO LONGER APPROPRIATE.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

AND LIKEWISE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT HOW THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO CALL IT, CLIMATE CHANGE, OR THE WEATHER IS CHANGING OR WHATEVER.

YOU CAN COLLECT REVELATIONS.

BUT IT IS CHANGING.

AND WHEN IT'S CHANGING, IT'S IMPACTING THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

THE FAILING INFRASTRUCTURE IS IMPACTING OUR PRODUCTIVITY, AND IT'S IMPACTING THE HEALTH OF EVERYBODY.

AND WE NEED TO FIX IT.

>> WHAT KEEPS YOU GOING?

>> MY FACE.

MY FACE KEEPS ME GOING.

I CAME FROM PRAYING PARENTS.

I COME FROM A PRAYING FAMILY.

I AM INSPIRED BY ALL THE PEOPLE FROM THE MOVEMENTS THAT I WAS INVOLVED IN, SEEING PEOPLE IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, BEFORE THEY DID ANY ACTION, THEY PRAYED FIRST.

AND I'M ALSO HOPEFUL BECAUSE OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT I ENCOUNTER.

I SPOKE TO A CLASS RECENTLY, AND THE PROFESSOR WROTE ME AS RECENTLY AS YESTERDAY AND SAID TO ME, TWO OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT WERE IN HIS CLASS CHANGE THEIR MAJORS BECAUSE OF THE ENGAGEMENT THAT WE HAD TOGETHER, TALKING TO EACH OTHER AND LISTENING.

AND THAT'S WHY I'M VERY HOPEFUL.

I REMAIN HOPEFUL.

AND WE ALWAYS HAVE TO LEAVE ROOM FOR TRANSFORMATION.

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE.

>> YOU HAVE A WORD FOR PEOPLE WHO, WHO ARE DISCOURAGED RIGHT NOW?

BECAUSE MANY OF THE ISSUES, LIKE, THAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR YEARS, PEOPLE REALLY DO SEE BACKSLIDING.

AND I WOULD, I WOULD ASK, LIKE, WHAT, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM, TO PEOPLE WHO REALLY FEEL LIKE, YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME LEFT, AND YET WE'RE, WE'RE GOING BACKWARDS?

HOW DO YOU, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> DON'T BURY YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND.

BECOME ACTIVE.

AND THE WAY I KEEP GOING IS THAT I STAY ACTIVE.

WE HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO STAY ENGAGED, WHETHER YOU WRITE A BOOK, WHETHER YOU WRITE AN OP- ED, WHETHER YOU ATTEND A RALLY, WHETHER YOU JUST SIMPLY VOTE, WHETHER YOU REGISTER PEOPLE TO VOTE, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE TO STAY ENGAGED.

AS I LOOKED AT, I WAS A HISTORY TEACHER.

AS I LOOK AT AMERICAN HISTORY, AS I LOOK AT THE HISTORY, EVEN THE FRENCH REVOLUTION, IT WAS SUSTAINED ENGAGEMENT THAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE CHANGE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO KEEP BEING ENGAGED.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE LEARNED IN ALL MY YEARS ON THIS PLANET IS THAT WE CAN'T REST ON OUR LAURELS WHEN WE HAVE SUCCESS.

WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO BE VIGILANT.

WE HAVE TO REMAIN PERSISTENT, AND WE HAVE TO STAY ACTIVE.

>> BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, YOUR BOOK IS CALLED, YOUR LATEST BOOK IS CALLED HOLY GROUND.

WHY, WHY THIS BOOK, WHY NOW, AND WHY DO YOU CALL IT THAT?

>> WELL, THE BOOK WAS SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT OF TWO YEARS AGO, BECAUSE I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO COME TO A TIME WHEN WE WOULD NEED THAT, BUT WE WOULD NEED TO BE REMINDED OF WHO WE ARE AND HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE.

AND I FELT THAT ONE WAY TO DO THAT WAS TO TALK ABOUT MY OWN PERSONAL STRUGGLES, BECAUSE THEY'RE INTERTWINED IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE ESSAYS, YOU KNOW?

I EVEN REVEALED SOME THINGS ABOUT MYSELF THAT I HAD NEVER SHARED BEFORE, THAT I WAS, I HAD AN ECTOPIC PREGNANCY, AND IT WASN'T AN ECTOPIC PREGNANCY THAT BOTHERED ME, IT WAS THE WAY I FOUND OUT ABOUT IT.

YOU KNOW, I WAS HALFWAY IN A TWILIGHT SLEEP, AND THE DOCTOR CAME IN AND SAID, SHE CAN HAVE THE BABY.

I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW I WAS PREGNANT.

BUT THOSE ARE DECISIONS THAT WERE TAKEN AWAY FROM ME.

AND I EVEN REVEALED MY MOTHER'S, THE FACT THAT MY MOTHER WAS STERILIZED.

AND THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME FORWARD SINCE THAT TIME THIS YEAR WITH THEIR OWN STORIES.

SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE A PIVOTAL POINT WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RIGHT OF MOTHER EARTH, AND I THINK, AGAIN, IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

WHAT I WANT TO ALSO LEAVE PEOPLE WITH A SENSE OF HOPE, BECAUSE WITH EACH AND EVERY ESSAY, I DO TRY TO LEAVE A SENSE OF HOPE.

BECAUSE I FEEL FOR ME TO BE WHERE I AM AT THIS POINT, COMING FROM THE DIRT ROADS OF LOWNDES COUNTY TO THE COVER OF TIME MAGAZINE, MY PARENTS COULD NOT HAVE IMAGINED THAT.

AND THAT'S WHY MY LAST CHAPTER IS, I AM THE ANSWER TO MY ANCESTORS DREAMS.

>> CATHERINE COLEMAN FLOWERS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.